Thursday, September 20, 2007

Archbishop to hold 'secret' meeting with gays

The Archbishop of Canterbury is to meet behind closed doors with gay Anglicans to discuss the current crisis in the Church. The Times has revealed details of this ‘secret’ meeting, and the fact that Chatham House rules will apply (though how enforced?) has upset quite a few who think the issue should be dealt with openly. The title of his sermon shall be ‘Present realities and future possibilities for lesbians and gay men in the Church’. Cranmer is hoping to get his hands on a copy.

A spokesman for Archbishop Williams played down the significance of his meeting with gay priests and others: ‘It should come as no surprise that the Archbishop is meeting pastorally with clergy and others affected by the current debates in the Church. Such encounters extend right across the range of opinions within the Church.’

These are testing times indeed for the 77-million-strong Anglican Communion, which is deeply divided over the role of gay men and lesbians in the Church. There is intense pressure to hold the Communion together, but many African bishops are preferring schism. With the Archbishops present tour of the United States, schism appears to be unavoidable, but so what? The worldwide Communion is a little like a relic of Empire, and it is fatuous to believe that one man in Canterbury has responsibility for sustaining the unity of autonomous constituents. Indeed, as he has concluded, the only means of achieving this is to become more pope-like in his expression of ecclesial authority and his assertions of theological primacy.

And then it is simply a matter of discerning the lesser evil...


Blogger Straight Mike - tells it as it is said...

Your Grace
These people of vile affections (the sodomites that is!!) should be driven out of the church - they would never have been tolerated in your day but would have been burned at the stake.Wouldn't it have been terrible to have to share a fire with them!! Incidentally I don;t like to refer to sodomites as being gay (a declaration that they are "Good As You") when their lifestyle is anti life, anti marriage and undermines morality. As for Williams, what goes on behind closed doors is rarely any good.

20 September 2007 at 10:34  
Anonymous najistani said...

We have millions of murderous jihad-crazed barbarians within the gates, Christians are being physically persecuted in the very heartlands of England, and the thin ends of a thousand wedges are being hammered into the social, cultural and legal structure of Western Civilisation - yet the major obsession of the Anglican church is with what consenting adults do with one another's thingies.

20 September 2007 at 12:30  
Blogger Little Black Sambo said...

A conference of gays will never be able to keep any secrets, so you will soon know everything that was said.

20 September 2007 at 13:35  
Blogger Wrinkled Weasel said...

Since it will soon be compulsory to be gay I am taking tango lessons, buying expensive personal grooming products and mugging up on showtunes.

I somehow feel that Dr Williams has already done HIS homework.

20 September 2007 at 13:48  
Blogger Greg said...

As Albert Mohler ( says, about the New Orleans Bishops' meeting with A/B Williams

"All concerned Christians should watch the developments in New Orleans with great interest. Beyond this, we must pray that this church would, against all expectations to the contrary, affirm the full authority of the Bible and its teachings on human sexuality. Anything short of that is just a temporary delay of the inevitable disaster to come."

20 September 2007 at 13:56  
Anonymous anon said...

What is the use of a church which actively encourages people who actively disobey its teachings?

20 September 2007 at 14:30  
Anonymous nedsherry said...

Does anyone recall the African bishop attempting to exorcise little Richard Kirker from the Lesbian and Gay Christian Association? His squeaks of outrage! How dare that benighted black fail to show solidarity with a fellow oppressee! Liberalism just isn't supposed to work like that.

20 September 2007 at 15:45  
Blogger Livingsword said...

Clearly homosexual activity militates against God (it is a sin). Persons actively involved/promoting/unrepentant of sin should not be in positions of authority in a Church. Just as if they were actively involved/promoting/unrepentant of adultery, theft, murder, lying, (insert all other sins here).

We are all sinners falling short of the glory of God, but if we have been redeemed by Christ, are in relationship with Him as our God and Savior, and are therefore filled with the Holy Spirit there should be a change in general towards a progressive transformation to a more Christlike life. Leaders in the Church have an even higher onus upon them than non-leaders.

In my part of Canada the only people I personally know that are still “active” in the Anglican church (note small “c”) treat it more like a club they are part of than a Church. Since there are so many great Christ-Bible centered Churches in the area genuine followers of Jesus have already left most of the Anglican churches.

20 September 2007 at 17:14  
Anonymous 4micah said...

‘Present realities and future possibilities for lesbians and gay men in the Church’

My only hopes is that the 'future possibilities' do not include normalization or affirmation. Homosexuality is damning; an active gay man is halted in his spiritual and emotional development, forever frozen as a little boy. Those who preach the equivalence of normal sexuality and homosexuality are guiding their male congregants to a lifestyle of bitterness and frustration.

20 September 2007 at 17:31  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What angers me is that we are beforced to have this discussion and that we are being forced to accept Gays. There are other faiths out there that state that Gay's should be Killed and no one compains about them. Hypocrisy at it's worse which can only be fould in PC liberials

20 September 2007 at 18:24  
Blogger Wrinkled Weasel said...

anon 18.24

They currently want to abolish Christianity at the University of Oxford, but if they did that it would put so many homosexuals out of a job. I mean, the Anglican Church is full of them. Gays should stick up for the Church of England on the basis that it has employed them, without batting an eyelid, or swishing a cassock, for many decades.

I had "dealings" with one over a period of years, and now he is a high profile Bishop. He is obviously gay but pretends to be straight. The hypocrisy abounds.

20 September 2007 at 20:07  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your Grace hosts a nest of angry WASPs (not Najistani). They appear to prefer orthodoxy over considered morality and biblical certainty over the spirit of Christ. Livingsword has the answer: join the whacko inerrancy crowd and your cognitive dissonance problems will be over.

20 September 2007 at 21:38  
Anonymous Voyager said...

This thread seems to be therapeutic in a psychiatric sense...why all this faux indignation ?

His Grace points out that the Anglican communion is a legacy of empire, quite so, which is why the USA had to be affiliated with the Episcopal Church in Scotland since it could not accept the Act of Supremacy. It is the USA that is not in the British Commonwealth and ECUSA is pathetically trivial there - so cast out any ECUSA that deviates from the XXXIX Articles.

It used to be PECUSA - but apparently being a Protestant Church was anathema

Anyway, the Church has been home to homosexuals throughout the ages, but they did not attempt to subvert Scripture nor impose an essentially Pre-Christian, essentially Pagan, doctrine upon the Christian Church nor to attempt to imply biblical teachings were the opposite of what was stated.

To that end those activists trying to make Man the centre of the Christian Faith and impose a Humanism where Christian Teachings are required should be ejected from the church.

As for the presence of discreet homosexuals within congregations I have no qualms - it is in Leviticus that the professional priesthood is given its obligation to be pure in return for living off the is hardly compatible with a modern priesthood casting doubt on Leviticus - the only part of the bible to justify professional priests rather than lay preachers.

On the big canvas homosexuality is an irrelevance, it is simply being instrumentalised by the Anti-Christian brigade who seek to smash all structures and the trojan horse was the ordination of women, which has produced a laxity akin to primary school teaching

21 September 2007 at 06:37  
Blogger Mission Impossible said...

Just to supplement voyager's last para. (21 September 2007 06:37) one should see homosexuality as another key component in the feminizing of western culture.

I recall a TV series broadcast by either the BBC or Channel-4 (UK) during the 1980s, written and presented by the historian AJP Taylor (???) called "Greek Fire." Perhaps another commenter can help me here, as it may have been another British historian: whoever he was, I know he shifted to France (fluent in French) and became a popular TV debater there.

In any case, I distinctly remember one episode in the multi-part series warning that our culture was predicated on the Greek notions of masculinity; further feminization would undermine our very foundations. I have therefore always seen feminism (plus its surrogate: male homosexuality) as the primary danger. Voyager's use of "trojan horse" is very apt.

21 September 2007 at 08:18  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Other religions that state this dont actually do this. Ive not heard a single person being burnt at the stake in an islamic country of being gay...
then again you have to keep it schtum!

21 September 2007 at 14:45  
Anonymous Observer said...

Ive not heard a single person being burnt at the stake in an islamic country of being gay...

No they kill them by placing large stones on top of them....Afghanistan

London – 20 April 2006

The Iranian government is executing gay and bisexual men under the cover of rape and kidnapping charges, according to a major new investigation by Simon Forbes of the UK-based gay and lesbian human rights group OutRage!

Mr Forbes's nine-month investigation, published today by OutRage!, is based on information gathered from sources inside Iran. His research reveals:

* Lynchings by Iran's security forces, and ‘honour killings' by families in the south western province of Khuzestan

* Secret hangings in prison

* The method of hanging is designed to cause slow, agonising strangulation

* Internet entrapment of gay Iranians using foreign-based online gay dating agencies

* A pattern of framing gay people on charges of kidnap, rape and paedophilia, as the following five sample cases suggest:

* The Gorgan case where two men were publicly hanged for Lavaat (sodomy) in November 2005

Originally appeared Feb. 6, 2002, in the Chicago Free Press.

It was bad enough that Afghanistan's repressive Taliban regime publicly executed at least five gay men during its brief existence. Then we learned of Egypt's ongoing arrest, imprisonment and possible torture of gay men, charging them with "offenses against religion" (i.e., Islam).

Now we learn that on January 1, 2002, Saudi Arabian authorities publicly beheaded three gay men after Islamic religious courts in the southwestern city of Abha declared them guilty of "engaging in the extreme obscenity and ugly acts of homosexuality, marrying among themselves and molesting the young," charges obviously exaggerated to provoke public outrage

21 September 2007 at 16:49  
Anonymous nedsherry said...

Archbishop accused of 'dehumanising gays'

Poor old Rowan. One side thinks God hates gays, the other thinks gays are God, and he's stuck in the middle.

22 September 2007 at 15:28  
Blogger Didactophobe said...

I absolutely agree about the Anglican communion being a legacy of empire. Those African communicants are Christian because of earlier generations of Anglican missionaries, yet they now discover that the Church of England has largely given up on religion.

As Observer points out, there are far more extreme examples of homophobic hatred in the world than a Christian pointing out what the Bible teaches.

Perhaps the problem is that the Church of England has always been a political organisation. It was constructed to provide secular legitimacy to the line of succession (albeit did not go very far) from Henry VIII and now has the role of promoting the pro-gay, pro-atheist, pro-socialist and pro-Islamic standards of the depraved and corrupt society we inhabit today.

24 September 2007 at 08:30  

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