Tuesday, July 28, 2009

Tea with the Taliban

It is a curious obstinacy which refuses all polite dialogue with the BNP yet advocates talking to the Taliban.

Cranmer has no time for Nick Griffin and his acolytes, yet he has even less for Mullah Omar and his global jihadist ummah. And while the BNP is a legally-constituted, democratically-elected and peaceable political party, the Taliban is none of these. Unless, of course, you subscribe to their creed that all who oppose them are infidels and that their law is The Law.

But even as the bravest and best British soldiers are paying the ultimate price in the course of their duty for Queen and country, the Foreign Secretary David Miliband wants to chat about reconciliation with the more warmongers over tea and cake.

No doubt he would obligingly ensure the cake was halal.

Since Cranmer does not wish to misrepresent the Foreign Secretary, he wishes to clarify that Mr Miliband’s invitation is extended exclusively to the ‘moderate’ Taliban: the ‘extremists’ are not invited to tea.

But this is a curious strategy, and one wonders how there can be any credible negotiated settlement with the ‘moderates’ when the ‘real’ Taliban are ostracised. It is rather like inviting ‘moderate’ Sinn Féin to Downing Street, ensuring that the extremist terrorists Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are excluded from the peace talks.

It seems doomed to failure.

The ‘senior Taliban commander’ Sirajuddin Haqqani is reported to have already rejected Mr Miliband’s overtures, noting in his polite RSVP that ‘the British only want to talk because they are feeling the pain from heavy losses’. He said: "Those struggling to liberate their homeland from occupation forces... will never talk to US or British forces when we are winning on the battlefield. We have a clear-cut stance on negotiations. The Taliban will stop fighting and talk when the US-led forces and the British government announce they are leaving Afghanistan."

And he rejected any suggestion that there might be ‘moderates’ in the Taliban. The brotherhood are united: they are all as convicted as Nick Griffin; as devout as Gerry Adams. There are no divisions, no factions, no sub-groups or schisms.

But the Foreign Secretary insists on drawing a distinction between the extremists who are ‘ideologically committed to a global jihadist viewpoint’, and the moderates who simply want a parochial tyranny and a local jihad.

The British Government can do business the latter because they ‘just have a particular view of how their own locality should be governed’. This, according to the Foreign Secretary, is ‘a critical distinction’.

Is it?

It is a curious ‘ethical foreign policy’ which distinguishes between the indistinguishable. Did not Saddam Hussein just have a particular view of how his own locality should be governed? Robert Mugabe does not appear to have global ambitions. Even Gerry Adams and the IRA only had ‘a particular view of how their own locality should be governed’: they were not interested in imposing their Irish nationalist jihad on London.

If communicants are puzzled by the juxtaposition of Northern Ireland with Afghanistan, it is only because International Development Secretary, Douglas Alexander, insists that the British experience of Northern Ireland shows that jaw-jaw and war-war may be complementary; that talking to terrorists makes sense in the long run.

Cranmer begs to differ.

Kabul is not Belfast.
Hamid Karzai is no Ian Paisley.
The Pashtun nationalists are not the SDLP.
The Masajid of Helmand are not the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster.
The Good Friday Agreement was only possible with humiliating concessions (mainly) from the Unionists, not to mention the sacrifice of David Trimble.
Irish unification has no political equivalent in Afghanistan.
The Taliban has no political wing.
The Christian culture of Northern Ireland comprehends liberal democracy and yearned for it: the Islamic culture of Afghanistan does not.
The people of Northern Ireland on both sides of the sectarian divide were united in their desire for peace: the people of Afghanistan are not.
The Son of God who rejected the sword cannot be equated with the Prophet who lived by it.
Sinn Féin were given a taste of power sharing in advance of a final settlement: Mullah Omar has no desire to share power with anyone, least of all the ‘moderate’ infidel.

Still, it is axiomatic that yesterday’s terrorists are tomorrow’s statesmen.

One thinks of Nelson Mandela, Yitzhak Shamir, Colonel Gaddafi, Yasser Arafat, Gerry Adams...

One may yet see Mullah Omar shaking hands in Downing Street, and Prime Minister Miliband declaring ‘Peace in our time’.


Blogger Gnostic said...

This is what happens when the intellectual pygmies seize control.

Sadly there are no giants waiting in the shadows...

28 July 2009 at 09:25  
Anonymous philip walling said...

We shouldn't have invaded Afghanistan on the pretext that if we didn't suppress the Taliban they would take over Pakistan and start firing nuclear weapons at us.
I agree it's a bit of a poser as to what 'liberal' democracy can do against militant Islam but arguably we have bitten off more than we can chew and are heading for humiliation.
If it weren't for Pakistan's nuclear weapons I would get out of Afghanistan and let them sort it out amongst themselves.

28 July 2009 at 09:31  
Anonymous philip walling said...

Gnostic, it's not intellectual but moral pygmies that are in charge. But that's because we in Christendom have lost the greater part of our moral sense, infected as we have been by 'liberalism' and other forms of materialism which have hollowed us out to a walking shell.

28 July 2009 at 09:35  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe the Taliban can see how 'democracy' is only a word Your Grace, and how people that get democratically elected by Britain are treated when they have 'different' views to the ones being pushed.

I think His Grace is going to have to accept that there will be no Grammar Schools or Anglican cathedrals in Afghanistan; they simply do not wish to have them.

They need no reminders from you about disdain, Britain has stamped its disdain on everything it dislikes, its like the markings running through a stick of Blackpool Rock.

You are an unbelievable pompous twat Your Worship, you are leaving a nasty taste in my own mouth, it is quite repulsive.

28 July 2009 at 10:17  
Anonymous Maturecheese said...

Anon 10:17
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but the use of bad language is not used on this blog and maybe you should depart to another one ,like Old Holburn for instance, or more likely, Labourlist.

28 July 2009 at 10:26  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can you not see the irony in that comment?

28 July 2009 at 10:31  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe Mr Milliband is having one of those 'road to Damascus' moments, where if you persecute something for long enough, there is a real danger that the hysterical nature of it can infect your brain....maybe David has been illuminated by the light of Islam in a blinding flash of revelation.

Speaking of hysteria...why are we in Afghanistan again?

28 July 2009 at 10:44  
Anonymous Orwellian Prophet said...

‘the British only want to talk because they are feeling the pain from heavy losses’.

Sirajuddin Haqqani is right. There aren't enough boots in the entire British Army to occupy Afghanistan and subjugate the Taliban in the tribal areas of Pakistan. A small army cannot win this war with conventional weapons alone.

Cranmer is right. Afghanistan is not Northern Ireland. The political solution for Ulster will never serve as a blueprint for Helmand.

The only common factor between the two conflicts is that the Government wants to talk because it is unable to win its objectives by military force. It's all political posturing ready for the General Election. The tragic parade of coffins through Wootton Bassett is very damaging to the ruling Party and they know it.

I reckon that the emphasis from now on will be to keep the troops in defensive mode to minimise casualties, but at the same time make a lot of noise about negotiations in a frantic effort to be seen to be doing something positive.

Incidentally, on the TV news about Afghanistan the PM invariably uses the 'We' regarding military achievements. I didn't see you there Gordon, leading the charge of the Lightly Armoured Brigade; must have missed that, but perhaps you were in the background quietly defusing IED's. Anyway I expect you'll get a peerage at the very least. Lord Brown of Bastion no doubt.

28 July 2009 at 11:51  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

While His Grace is fretting over Muslims in Afghanistan, he should not lose sight of the fact that their co-religionists are meeting in London and calling for a caliphate to be established ‘that will free the Muslim world from the terror and hegemony that has been brought upon it by the West’.

His Grace takes his usual swipe at the British National Party and its leader but what other party has the resolve to confront the Islamization of Britain? The Tories? Pull the other one.

•Johnny Rottenborough•

28 July 2009 at 12:09  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Tories are going to save us with the help of Jesus!

We will have more Grammer schools for the surfs and ....run out of things to say!

28 July 2009 at 12:18  
Blogger Preacher said...

Regretably this political stance is often reflected in the ecclesia, weak leaders wishing to discuss where we agree with other faiths rather than debating from a position of strong faith. this gives an impression of uncertainty & weakness which in the case of Islam is sure to be despised as seen here.
If others cannot see strength then they will not have respect. The question of Afghanistan is now as complex as Vietnam was for America & reveals that more thought should be given before undertaking so great a task. Does the Lord Himself not warn about going to war without first evaluating the likely outcome & consequences?

28 July 2009 at 12:48  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

There's so many anonymice around it's hard to know which is which.

Cannot you simply have a policy of no Anonymice Your Grace?

Back on subject. Can anyone tell me what moderate Islam is? It appears to mean, hasn't killed as many as the others. Is it fair to say that the BNP are the moderate wing of the NF?

28 July 2009 at 12:57  
Blogger Gnostic said...

Phil W. Moral pygmies - absolutely. Unfortunately they are very stupid ones too.

28 July 2009 at 13:24  
Anonymous sydneysider said...

Let your enemies be disarmed by the gentleness of you manner like the deer for the doe,but at the same time let them feel the steadiness of your resentment.

28 July 2009 at 14:19  
Blogger Dr.D said...

Moderate Taliban is an oxymoron.

28 July 2009 at 14:43  
Anonymous non mouse said...

Philip W:
I say separation of Mind from Morality corrupts both.

So the present shower proceed on their headlong spiral.

Milipede makes me so ashamed (and, of course, he's not even British).

28 July 2009 at 14:48  
Anonymous churchmouse said...

I wonder what kind of Tea they'll decide on - out there among the poppy fields?

28 July 2009 at 15:03  
Blogger OldSouth said...

What would the world now look like if the US government had decided in the 1920's to sit down and negotiate with the 'moderate' wing of the Ku Klux Klan?

Or, perhaps the 'moderates' amongst Al Capone's Mafia organization?

Perhaps we should just sit down over a bottle of tequila and 'negotiate' with the 'moderate' leadership of the cocaine cartels of Mexico--you know, the ones who murder their rivals, but don't behead them and leave body parts outside the homes of their families.

I'm certain all would work out so much better if we joined hands with the 'narcotraficantes', perhaps setting a quota for how many young people could become newly addicted every year, with a solemn promise to otherwise behave extracted from our new 'partners'.

It's bound to work, I'm certain...

28 July 2009 at 15:28  
Anonymous Orwellian Prophet said...

I thought they were coming here for tea.

They could bring their own interpreters.

You know the ones I mean.

Those who speak good English in West Bromwich, Manchester and Bradford accents.


28 July 2009 at 15:29  
Anonymous Brian E. said...

You forgot Makarios in Cyprus.

28 July 2009 at 15:46  
Anonymous Adrian P said...

The Difference is that the Taliban Leadership might be pursuaded to support the Puppet New World Order Regime recently installed in places like Iraq, Afghansitan and son Iran.
The BNP, being a Nationalist Party are opposed to the surrender of Sovereignty, ours AND theirs.

So all Nationalist parties have to be demonised.

any arab that fights for his country is immediately with Alquieda, and Nationalists are soon to be demonised as Terrorists too, with the help of the False Flag events the Met keeps warning us about.

All very predictable really.

28 July 2009 at 16:27  
Anonymous Adrian Peirson said...

Oh and I hear Thermite has been confirmed yet again by iundependant teams of researchers in material found at the World Trade Centres.

Why were we there again, I bet the New World Order hates the Internet.

Niels Harrit

28 July 2009 at 16:34  
Anonymous Got the Guts to wear God said...

Well said Adrian P...

"conspiracy theory!" I hear people say. This phrase in itself is a conspiracy theory. A phrase coined by the self-imposed elite to stop the people asking questions of a corrupt power base.

28 July 2009 at 16:55  
Blogger English Viking said...

Your Grace,

Why did you capitalize the word 'prophet' in your post?

28 July 2009 at 16:55  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr English Viking,

It is prefixed with the definite article.

28 July 2009 at 17:34  
Blogger English Viking said...

Your Grace,

So is the word 'brotherhood', but you did not capitalize that. Do you consider it (the word prophet) a proper noun?

28 July 2009 at 18:07  
Blogger Arden Forester said...

I find it hard to understand this graceless mob that runs the country. One week we have Gordon Brown jabbering about how we have plenty of helicopters to fight this necessary fight. The next we have David Miliband seeking to sit down with "moderate" Taliban types to discuss the future.

He might as well look at the dregs in his tea cups. It is mind-boggling what they are up to. Men's lives on the line and they are at sixes and sevens.

I feel very much like the Queen of Hearts. "The Queen had only one way of settling all difficulties, great or small. 'Off with his head!' she said, without even looking round."


28 July 2009 at 18:30  
Anonymous not a machine said...

alas David Millibands statement whiffs all to much of electioneering , Most Afgahnis are greatfull of at least some civilisation .

The taliban and Al que Aida have suffered , perhaps they must come to the politcal settlement at some point. I dont think Mr Milliband has been that good at preparing Afghanistan for the time when the high ex has made its case .

Thats the funny thing about Islam it cannot control or remedy the problem of the gun toting cleric or the drug maker profits of Allah .

It depends now on islams ability to sort its problems out , more civillian backwardness and cleric militia or a shared and equitable peace for its and our citizens .

28 July 2009 at 18:32  
Blogger ZZMike said...

Afghanistan is a great boil on .... (Monty Python afficionados can fill in the rest).

Rudyard Kipling wrote about it - he was a sort of literary war correspondent. The British flailed about in that area in the 1800s, then the Russians came in (they seem to be the only successful occupiers - but this was about 1870), and then the British, miffed at Russia's success, demanded that the Emir recognize them as well.

The Emir told them to get lost, so the British sent in a large force. After that, a lot of back-and-forth until about 1880. The British were safely ensconced in Afghanistan at that time, and evidently considered their mission accomplished, so they left.

A stirring account of that time in Afghanistan has been provided in the form of memoirs left by Brigadier-General Sir Harry Paget Flashman, VC, KCB, KCIE, and rendered into a series of books by George MacDonald Fraser.

Somewhat later (in 1979), the Russians "... citing the 1978 Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Good Neighborliness that had been signed between the two countries — intervened on December 24, 1979. Over 100,000 Soviet troops took part in the invasion backed by another one hundred thousand and by members of the Parcham faction."

They gave up in 1989. Things went downhill from there, and in 1996, the Taliban took over, and by 2000 were in control of the country.

In 2001, the US invaded, to wipe out al-Qaeda training camps and oust the Taliban.

It's been a mess ever since, with little chance of improving.

Adrian Peirson: I hope you're not serious. Consider the composition of thermite: Aluminum and iron oxide. Now ask yourself, what are airplanes made of? Mostly aluminum. And what are building beams made of? Steel, which is mostly iron.

English Viking: "the Prophet" refers to a particular person, and is hence a proper noun, which in this language, is capitalized.

Much like "the Queen" and "the President".

"The brotherhood" is more ambiguous; it is not a title they use among themselves.

It is encouraging, though, to know that there are those whose attention is focussed on every word of our gracious host. (That, of course, refers to a particular person, but for some odd reason is not proper enough to warrant capitalization (except perhaps when meant as an honorific).)

28 July 2009 at 19:01  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr ZZ MIke,

His Grace is most appreciative for your patience in explaining to a fellow communicant the nuance of the trivial issue.

28 July 2009 at 19:05  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I think you are confusing the application of honest common sense for the good of all concerned, with PARTY POLITICS.

The FS is simply positioning himself for a time when he will/might be a shadow FS.

The line will be, just like it was from 79 onwards, that a sitting Conservative government should be 'talking to terrorists.' Or simply the enemy.

As we all should surly know, we should have been talking to our potential enemies, way before they became actual enemies. Then we should have been talking even more, well before the bits of human bodies started flying in all directions.

A very well, and extremely painfully established fact of life, and pointless human slaughter, that the death of Harry Patch should have reminded us of.

Warmongers and the people they work for, ( who are the people who control the ENTIRE worlds arms industries and the worlds central banks that effectively own and finance same) do not like peace, for fairly obvious reasons. Which is why we never have any peace for very long. ALL Labour, Democrat and Liberal governments, have always been controlled by Fascist type corporatism, even more completely then Republican and Conservative ones. The only reason why they talk so much about things such as pacifism. Is because the elites that control all political parties, rightly calculated that the people will be more easily conned into starting/fighting in pointless wars by people that say so often that they don't want, or believe in fighting wars. FDR, JFK, Lloyd George, NC, W Wilson and H Wilson, Tony Blair, being just 7 very good/BAD examples.

This would be all rather clever really, if it were not so murderously, dishonestly, and criminally insane.

Atlas shrugged

28 July 2009 at 21:47  
Blogger St Bruno said...

I kiss your ring to retain humbleness in your high, august and mighty presence.
I forgive you for not speaking to the despised BNP and all they represent; I trust you will forgive me my humble rant. There is free speech still in the land I have been told.

When I see the coffins arriving in UK I wonder why?

I find it truly difficult to find an answer or rather a reason for the death of our personnel. For whom? For what?
The enemy is killing our troops. I suppose the UK must be at war with the enemy.
Who is the enemy? Some members of a tribe called Islam, only that part called radical or militant are killing our troops though some of the rest are sometimes remain silent and do nothing in our land called UK; to which they are welcome to integrate and live among us and our troops.

I have read that during the Second World War all Germans were Nazi and therefore really naughty and fit only to be killed and bombed. The Germans who were unfortunate enough to be in UK at the time of declaration of war were rounded up and placed in camps for their own protection. Why is our country still allowing enemy nationals the choice to live here among their enemies? Is there some diabolical plot known only to foreigners that plans the demise of our country in exchange for a united Afghanistan, or Iraq for that matter?
When the talking stops the killing starts or is it the other way round these days? Talk to the enemy surely it is too late for that, what are they on?
If they must talk to somebody why not talk to the Ruskies, now, they could tell a tale or two, and have more common sense where lost battles are concerned.

28 July 2009 at 21:54  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

St Bruno

Good thinking. If you actually want answers, in stead of just asking good questions. May I draw your attention to my comments above?

We do now, as we have ALWAYS in the past, fight wars for THEM not for US.

This is why wars have NEVER made any sense. That means wars only make sense for THEM and their interests, they have never, especially with hind-sight EVER made sense for US or our interests. Exactly the same can, and should be said for the ordinary people on both sides of any armed conflict.

Yes sure, they give us a few brass meddles, masonic shaped war memorials, and sometimes even a tax payer financed health service after-wards. But even when we win, we get nothing sustainable, other then more public debt and authoritarianism. Followed by re-privatization of everything they stole to placate us with, like for example said health services.

Have you ever wondered why it is that we the people of Britain apparently won the last two WW's. Yet the quality of life and standards of living of the average Japanese or German, is higher then ours, and has been for the last 40 odd years??????

You have? Good.

So you must therefore already know many of the answers to your own questions.

Atlas shrugged

28 July 2009 at 23:03  
Anonymous Adrian P said...

According to Retired Naval in this lecture, Commander Brian Gerrish, our troops are in Afghanistan partly so they can be culled and demoralised.
He's not the only one to reach that conclusion.
He also states that some of our Military Bases are being refurbished to accomodate EU troops because Tyrannies always use foreign troops to supress their own people.

State of the Nation

28 July 2009 at 23:05  
Blogger Brad said...

Suppose you don't believe that Mohammad was a prophet to begin with?
Suppose you don't believe in any religion?
Then what?

29 July 2009 at 00:21  
Blogger Dr.D said...

@ Brad
In the first case, you get two pieces of cake with your tea.

In the second case, you get neither tea nor cake. Just buzz off.

29 July 2009 at 00:51  
Blogger English Viking said...

Your Grace,

Would you capitalize your butcher, or baker, or candlestick-maker, were they not THE butcher, or baker, etc. Your communicant is disappointed at your opinion of the elevation of an idol as a trivial issue.

29 July 2009 at 03:05  
Blogger English Viking said...

@ZZ Mike (19:01)

The President and Her Majesty The Queen undoubtedly hold their relevant offices. That the man in question held his is seriously in doubt. unless you are a muslim. (Also not capitalized).

29 July 2009 at 03:13  
Blogger Arden Forester said...

Where does Miliband draw the line, I wonder? Would he have tea and cake with "moderate nazis"?

Maybe he would!

29 July 2009 at 16:02  
Anonymous Adrian P said...


you ask if I'm being serious, It wasn't my research, it was carried out by Prof Neils Harrit of the University of Copenhagen.

It confirms work carried out by Prof Stephen Jones who similarly discovered active thermitic material in the rubble of all three collapsed buildings.

This is in addition to the tons of Molten steel ( Thermite reaches temperatures of 4500 deg and can easily cut through steel )
Hydrocarbon flames cannot, firstly, jet fuel does not burn hot enough and would have burnt off within minutes of the initial explosion.

Secondly they have detonated these thermitic chips and they have exploded exothermically.

Now as an engineer, who am I supposed to believe, two independant Professors of Chemisty about their findings or President Bush.

29 July 2009 at 20:45  
Anonymous Cynthia said...

Tea should be taken in solitude...
for eating and reading are two
pleasures that combine admirably.Of
course not all books are suitable for meal time reading.It would be a
kind of blasphemy to read poetry at
table. (C S Lewis)

31 July 2009 at 07:47  
Anonymous len said...

As the aims of the Taliban are to set up an Islamic state and institute Sharia law, I cannot see what discussions might be about.
Pakistani analyst Rahimullah Yousufzai is reported as saying" The Taliban are very rigid in their demands.They actually don`t want to talk unless they have some guarantee that Western forces will leave" he said.

4 August 2009 at 22:21  

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