Friday, February 19, 2010

I've never voted Labour before...


Blogger Augustine of Canterbury said...

This is sick and twisted. Not a subject for party politics.

19 February 2010 at 17:55  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Clearly the Augustine of canterbury is not really a christian. Must be one of those ultra liberal anglicans, who really don't believe anything.

of course it is a political issue- it is only labour who try and brainwash people into thinking otherwise.

19 February 2010 at 18:09  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Augustine of Canterbury,

Since we operate in a country which has adopted, for better or worse, a party system of doing politics - a system which developed through the 18th century and with which we appear to be stuck - either this is a subject for party politics or it is not a subject at all.

And before someone else bleats that this issue 'transcends party politics', they all do.

19 February 2010 at 18:09  
Anonymous Willy Brown said...

"This is sick and twisted. Not a subject for party politics."

So what should be a subject for party politics then?

19 February 2010 at 18:19  
Anonymous Stewart Cowan said...

I'm not sure there is a better subject for party politics. It is the main reason I won't be voting for any of the main parties. They all support the murder of the unborn for "social" reasons (which is 98% of abortions) and stem cell experiments on the unborn, even though adult stem cell research is far more fruitful.

It seems to be all about the "right" to extinguish human life.

19 February 2010 at 18:32  
Blogger srizals said...

Don't blame Muslims for invading Europe with babies now. In a couple of millennia they will out breed you. Why don't you enjoy yourself with raising children instead of just making them and end up with a bloody mess.

19 February 2010 at 18:54  
Anonymous Tony B said...

"And before someone else bleats that this issue 'transcends party politics', they all do."

Then why isn't this framed as a Tory poster?

19 February 2010 at 18:55  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Because the Tories did not introduce the Embryology and Fertlisation Bill or whip it through the Commons. Indeed, David Cameron has said that such Bills are matters of conscience and should be a free vote.

19 February 2010 at 19:00  
Anonymous len said...

What is life but a mass of cells to be experimented on and discarded when of no further use, this attitude seems to be acceptable in our Godless society. If you reject God and replace Him with another belief that puts chance and random processes in the place of God, there is no basis for right or wrong. Rules become whatever you want to make them. There are no absolutes—no principles that must be adhered to. People will write their own rules.

Many Christians recognize the degeneration that has occurred in society. They see the collapse in Christian ethics and the increase in anti-God philosophies. They are well aware of the increase of lawlessness, homosexuality, pornography, and abortion (and other products of humanistic philosophy), but they are at a loss to know why this is occurring. The reason they are in such a dilemma is that they do not understand the foundational nature of the battle. Creation versus evolution is the bottom line.

Particularly in the Western nations, where Christian ethics were once very prevalent, Darwinian evolution provided a justification for people not to believe in God and, therefore, to do those things which Christians would deem as wrong. As one non-Christian scientist said in a TV interview, “Darwinian evolution helped make atheism respectable.

19 February 2010 at 19:04  
Blogger John.D said...

Looking at that picture I can say that I know how it feels.

Having said that I would like to say something to D.Singh and Anabaptist (and anyone else who might be intersted) which is completely off topic and slightly unrelated.

William Crawley has posted details of introductory courses in biblical studies now offered online, and free of charge, by Yale University.

I highly recommend this course to anyone who may be interested. There is a discussion every friday after each section, but you can go through at your own pace. The lectures are fantastic.

SEE HERE - and follow link to course outline.

I have progressed to lecture 8, and I find it addictive.

19 February 2010 at 19:38  
Anonymous philip walling said...

Another one, Your Grace!

And the same comments apply as to abortion.

Party politics applies, a fortiori, if the party whips its members into voting for something.
But I don't understand why so many Labour Roman Catholic MPs succumbed to the whip.

19 February 2010 at 19:44  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Thanks John.D. I might be happy to teach on the course, but possibly that isn't included in the offer.

On Embryology and Fertilisation, as Mr Cameron has indicated that he would give a free vote on such matters, it is he -- following normal practice in these questions -- who is in effect removing them from the realm of party politics.

As you rightly observe, Cranny, our country has adopted a system of party politics. We vote on the basis of manifestos common to all members of a party, and binding on all members of that party (er, except when it comes to rerendums on the EU constitution). So when Cameron says 'free vote' he has taken parties out of it, and we, the electorate, get no vote and no say in these matters, unless we nag at our MPs.

So your 'bleat' comment in response to Mr Augustine is not wholly justified, I think.

19 February 2010 at 20:14  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Apologies, John.D, if I appeared dismissive in my previous posting. It wasn't meant that way.

19 February 2010 at 20:17  
Blogger English Viking said...

Abortion is murder. Liberals legalised it, Labour industrialised it, Conservatives condone it.

Come out her, my people, that ye be not a partaker of her sins.

Don't vote for murder.

19 February 2010 at 21:02  
Blogger Species 8472 said...


I am not John.D anymore - I am Species 8472. Maybe I was a little presumptuous, and the the couse does indeed have a title of "basic", but I am sure you will enjoy nontheless. Maybe you would enjoy bringing you superior opinion to the debates. (ouch)(I couldn't resist that).

19 February 2010 at 21:06  
Anonymous Daleks for labour said...

Species 8472, Daleks are the supreme beings of the universe and we will exterminate you and your socialist lackies! Exterminate! Exterminate!

19 February 2010 at 21:20  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Morality,honour and Christianity
will never be compatible with
parliamentary Democracy. The
universal ballot erects self interest as a God a motive well known to pseudo democrats.

The Sacred College

19 February 2010 at 21:24  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

Your Grace, Species 8472, Daleks? Even the little green men are seeking out your blog of wisdom, intelligence and erudite conversation.

19 February 2010 at 21:26  
Blogger Species 8472 said...

Daleks for Labour

The Borg are a formidable enemy of Species8472- the Daleks are nothing in will be assimilated before us!!! "May 6th"


19 February 2010 at 22:09  
Anonymous Goul'd said...

Nothing compared to the might of the system lords!

19 February 2010 at 23:10  
Anonymous The Dominion said...

Don't we get a look in? The EU is quite a model for us.

19 February 2010 at 23:11  
Anonymous Happyness Stan said...

This is sick and twisted. Not a subject for party politics.

19 February 2010 17:55


However it could be if indeed Cameron showed any intention of changing the law in this regard WHEN not if he becomes the next apparent dictator of the UK. As he has not, the colour of the SOCIALIST government in power at the time of this murderously insane legislation, is of no relevance.

To digress only very slightly.

Is there indeed any policy or piece of hopelessly illogical, authoritarian, immoral, inhuman or plainly counter-productive legislation, introduced by this particular bunch of Nazi's, Cameron is committed to repealing?

No, I thought not.

What is also worth considering. I doubt there are many that would believe that he would actually do so, even if he swore on a mountain of bibles that he would do precisely that.

Common sense and certainly experience should indicate that some things will change. Otherwise what is the point of the establishment bothering to ALLOW us to have elections at all?

For surly it is now self-apparent that the whole point of democracy is so that the establishment can blame the people for the policies ONLY the establishment conspire to ultimately enact.

You can all be perfectly confident that neither political parties, the people that head them, or most especially the people who vote for them have never had any say whatsoever in their effective policies, or the end result of them.

We are where we are because we are very carefully planned to be here. Party politics has only ever been a means to the establishments end.

If you like where you and your society are, you now know who to blame. If you do not, then you also now know who to blame.

There is no point blaming one or the other political Parties, because it is self apparently obvious that it must be all of their faults. Or to be more precise ultimately nothing whatsoever to do with any of them, or us.

EVERYTHING, and I do mean EVERYTHING that prospers is handed down from the very top of society. That top is several miles higher then very lowly PM level.

Nothing, and I do mean nothing at all, will ever be allowed to prosper that originates from, or is good for the bottom of society.

It was only EVER a matter of time before the ruling class would effectively take over the very function of human reproduction.

I see it as inevitable that within
my lifetime it will either become impossible or illegal for ANY citizen to perpetuate its own DNA without either a licence or prohibitively expensive medical intervention.

Inevitable for 3 reasons.

1. The establishment long since planned on making it so.

2. The establishment long since planned on making it so.

3. The establishment long since planned on making it so.

20 February 2010 at 00:10  
Anonymous not a machine said...

No doubt your grace must be musing on the complete fabian view of things , from moment of creation to grave : we have a way out !

I just keep thinking of how god asked the question before we had the technological ability and how that question resonates .

is aborortion really a free vote ?

20 February 2010 at 00:48  
Blogger Frugal Dougal said...

Well done again Your Grace, once more a powerful post that is to the point in a stark if not shocking manner. I'm sure that the shade of Kant also agrees.

20 February 2010 at 01:29  
Blogger Oliver said...

Well the Labour Party is a sick, twisted political party.

The only question is whether the Tory Party is any better.

20 February 2010 at 09:15  
Anonymous Tony B said...

>Indeed, David Cameron has said that such Bills are matters of conscience and should be a free vote.

An the Tories all voted one way, did they?

20 February 2010 at 09:31  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Well, John D or Species 8472, or whoever you are or say you are, it's nothing to do with 'superior opinions', though you may have been only half serious.

Anabaptists have always been outcasts and dissenters. The majority opinions on biblical hermeneutics and exegesis have for many centuries been hijacked by a mindset that is dominated by the 'Christendom' idea, and is inimical to the thinking of Anabaptists.

Anabaptist writings in the 16th and 17th centuries were ruthlessly purged and their teachers viciously persecuted. Only in recent years have Anabaptist insights been accepted by the 'guild' of biblical scholars, and there are still very wide divergences.

Indeed, even the very word 'Anabaptist' was coined as a term of abuse by their enemies (just like the word 'Christian' when it was coined).

So this has nothing to do with arrogance, but is grounded in my suspicion of any 'official' theology and biblical studies.

20 February 2010 at 09:39  
Blogger Maturecheese said...

Just a thought. Are all those that are vehemently against abortion on Religious grounds, also against fertility treatment?

20 February 2010 at 10:21  
Blogger English Viking said...


I can't speak for others, but if by 'fertility treatment' you me messing about with embryos, then yes, I'm against it.

20 February 2010 at 15:16  
Blogger English Viking said...

'Mean' not 'me'.

20 February 2010 at 15:16  
Blogger greenalien said...

I don't understand what is the picture referring to.

20 February 2010 at 17:24  
Blogger PaulineG said...


You don't have to be a person of faith to be vehemently against abortion. All you need is a willingness to acknowledge the scientific evidence as to when life begins and a commitment to the protection of human life from its beginning. So please don't try to 'ghetto-ise' this.

Like English Viking I make a clear distinction between forms of fertility treatment which involve to destruction of early human life and those which do not.

Seems a clear cut and important distinction to me.

20 February 2010 at 18:23  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Your Grace

Thank you for reminding me about what the national socialists - New Labour - did over the Embryology and Fertlisation Bill.

[Mr John.D - thank you. It is strange how many people have urged me to study theology recently.]

20 February 2010 at 19:06  

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