Wednesday, August 17, 2011

Gangsta & Mammon - idols of the riots

This is a guest post by the Rev'd Julian Mann.

The rioting in London and other major English cities was fundamentally an idolatrous religious festival. The two gods being worshipped were Gangsta and Mammon.

Gangsta is a deity growing in popularity amongst black and white young people in English urban society. He is a god who glorifies defiance of the established forces of law and order. His hymns take the form of rap music with violent lyrics.

Mammon is the god of material greed. He is popular across all social classes and cultures in our country and includes Members of Parliament amongst his devotees. His hymns are pop songs that glorify the human ego.

This spiritual fact has to be faced by politicians inclined to talk up morality in the wake of the riots: the young people who took part in the devastating and appalling criminality on our streets are finding satisfaction and fulfilment in Gangsta worship. They find a sense of belonging and community in the church of Gangsta. And they are enthusiastic missionaries for him, spreading his word through social media.

What happened during the rioting was that Gangsta and Mammon formed a syncretistic alliance and that was what proved so attractive to the young people who looted from shops.

Britain will not rediscover Christian morality unless and until it rediscovers the Christian God. The Ten Commandments, the eighth of which was so flagrantly broken during the riots, begin with the following declaration: 'And God spake all these words, saying: I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me' (Exodus 20v1-3 - King James Version).

This is the God who, the New Testament affirms, made himself known in his Incarnate Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Before the social revolution of the 1960s, British people used to worship this glorious Lord and Saviour in considerable numbers, and millions of young people used to learn about His love in Sunday schools.

Amongst other things, He taught them not to loot from shops and to respect the police.

Julian Mann is vicar of the Parish Church of the Ascension, Oughtibridge, South Yorkshire. He is an occasional columnist for the Church of the England Newspaper.


Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Its a good post Julian, only it got me thinking about an email I received the other week.

50 Things you are not meant to know and here is the first:

First Amendment battles continue to rage across the US over the posting of the Ten
Command-ments in public places — courthouses, schools, parks, and pretty much anywhere else
you can imagine. Christians argue that they're a part of our Western heritage that should be
displayed as ubiquitously as traffic signs. Congressman Bob Barr hilariously suggested that the
Columbine massacre wouldn't have happened if the Ten Commandments (also called the
Decalogue) had been posted in the high school, and some government officials have directly,
purposely disobeyed court rulings against the display of these ten directives supposedly handed
down from on high.
Too bad they're all talking about the wrong rules.
Every Decalogue you see — from the 5,000-pound granite behemoth inside the Alabama State
Judicial Building to the little wallet-cards sold at Christian bookstores — is bogus. Simply
reading the Bible will prove this. Getting out your King James version, turn to Exodus 20:2-17.
You'll see the familiar list of rules about having no other gods, honoring your parents, not killing
or coveting, and so on. At this point, though, Moses is just repeating to the people what God told
him on Mount Si'nai. These are not written down in any form.
Later, Moses goes back to the Mount, where God gives him two "tables of stone" with rules
written on them (Exodus 31:18). But when Moses comes down the mountain lugging his load, he
sees the people worshipping a statue of a calf, causing him to throw a tantrum and smash the
tablets on the ground (Exodus 32:19).
In neither of these cases does the Bible refer to "commandments." In the first instance, they are
"words" which "God spake," while the tablets contain "testimony." It is only when Moses goes
back for new tablets that we see the phrase "ten commandments" (Exodus 34:28). In an
interesting turn of events, the commandments on these tablets are significantly different than the
ten rules Moses recited for the people, meaning that either Moses' memory is faulty or God
changed his mind.
Thus, without further ado, we present to you the real "Ten Commandments" as handed down by
the LORD unto Moses (and plainly listed in Exodus 34:13-28). We eagerly await all the new
Decalogues, which will undoubtedly contain this correct version:
I. Thou shalt worship no other god.
II. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
III.. The feast of unleavened bread thou shalt keep
IV. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest.
V. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of
ingathering at the year's end.
VI. Thrice In the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord God.
VII. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven.

17 August 2011 at 18:34  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

There is some good news padre...

...the liberal apologists haven't made an appearance yet. It's never been this long before !

Maybe these riot's have delivered a real change in attitude, with the moral majority retaking some lost ground...

17 August 2011 at 18:50  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

He taught them … to respect the police.

Does God expect us to respect the police when they become thought police? The Lancashire Telegraph has a story headlined, ‘Scheme to spot potential right-wing extremists in Lancashire.’

‘Police said the ground-breaking counter-terrorism programme Channel, which has so far concentrated [on] Islamic extremism, has been widened to take account of the rise in right-wing extremism in the county. Parents, teachers, community leaders and police officers are referring children and young adults who they feel may be at risk of being radicalised by groups such as the English Defence League.’

The officer in charge, Bilal Mulla, says right-wing groups are a ‘threat to community cohesion’ and that interest in them constitutes ‘low level criminality’. A protest against Islam—a protest in support of Britain’s Christian heritage—now makes you an extremist and a criminal.

17 August 2011 at 19:30  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Mr Rottenborough, I hope you'll keep us informed on developments...

17 August 2011 at 19:50  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

Until they come for me, Inspector General.

17 August 2011 at 19:54  
Blogger non mouse said...

Bitb- I don't understand. First Black is White. Now Ten is Seven!!
There is surely more theology to this than I know -:)

It seems possible, however, that the 7 your correspondent referenced develop, or explain, different items of the original text: they expand upon ways in which the Jews were to worship God. Indeed, Exodus 22 and 23- and ff- go into more of those details than you list.

It seems likely, then, that Exodus 34:28 begins a new section, which speaks of Moses' re-inscription of the original 10 "words" [Douay Rheims] or, "the words of the covenant, the ten commandments" [KJV].

That is to say, perhaps we should read it as saying that Moses re-inscribed only the head-lines of the original Ten Commandments -- not all the explanations.

17 August 2011 at 19:56  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Johnny, the comments on that link are an eye opener, how much longer.

17 August 2011 at 19:57  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

'Before the social revolution of the 1960s, British people used to worship this glorious Lord and Saviour in considerable numbers, and millions of young people used to learn about His love in Sunday schools.'

I'm afraid this is nostalgia for a golden age that never was. If you want a real turning point it was the first world war. Although the trenches were no respecter of persons, it was non-conformist young men who were hardest hit, as they rushed to volunteer from the beginning. Therefater the chapels were emptied and the heart of non-conformity ripped out. There is a fine analysis of this in David Fountain's biography of EJ Poole-Connor.

What we are in fact seeing is the slow withdrawal of Christendom. Mistakenly identified as 'the sea of faith' in Arnold's 'Dover Beach', it was not faith that was ebbing, but official faith. Read Stuart Murray's 'Post Christendom' for a fine historical and theological account of what has gone, what is left, and what we should do.

The ten commandments, by the way, were given by God as the sign of the covenant between him and the people he had redeemed from bondage in Egypt. It is remarkable and rather sad to see Christians talking of them as though they are an eternal moral standard given to all. Jesus, in the sermon on the mount, gave a higher law for his followers.

Britain was never Israel, and it was never the kingdom of Christ.

17 August 2011 at 20:06  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Mr Rottenborough you are too right. Mark Steyn observes: 'In Britain, everything is policed except crime.'

Read it and weep at

17 August 2011 at 20:11  
Blogger Johnny Rottenborough said...

@ Bred in the bone (19:57)—With the officer in charge bearing a Muslim name, I’d say quite a bit longer.

@ Anabaptist (20:11)—Good link. Thanks.

17 August 2011 at 20:24  
Blogger non mouse said...

Oh dear, Mr. R: The officer in charge, Bilal Mulla, says right-wing groups are a ‘threat to community cohesion’ and that interest in them constitutes ‘low level criminality’ [My emphasis]

So now, it seems, we've 'ascended' to a socialist ideal of Minority Rule. Their concept's unoriginal, as usual: we called it Oligarchy back when colour wasn't an issue --- but it was still ethnic, the frogules holding sway for so long.

Needs must... I compare the problem with that Thomas More describes at the beginning of his Utopia.* More's text, of course, rests on a history of 16-century Enclosures - which favoured sheep over Britons, and led our unenfranchised, dispossessed, indigenous underclass to wreak unrest and thievery. The thieving "oligopoly" who caused it all hanged that lot, in large number.

Amazing though, how all this is falling into place just as another bunch of euros set themselves up to deprive us of our heritage.

* I owe the comparison to His Grace's polysemous reference yesterday "'s all being neatly tied up as we sleepwalk to our pre-ordained EUtopia in fulfilment of our teleological destiny.” After which I turned to re-read More.

17 August 2011 at 20:48  
Blogger The Minister for Public Enlightenment said...

Britain never was a nation of Christian believers but the population accepted the moral values of Christianity in public if not in private. Shared values of family life, morality and civic responsibility led to a stable society with the ability to withstand massive trauma like world war. Those values have been deliberately dismantled by an illiberal intelligentsia pursuing reckless social experimentation and we have been left with moral relativity where everyone does what he regards as right in his own eyes.

The problem is even worse thanks to the idiocy of multiculturalism. Now with a plethora of cultural norms, ideologies and religions we will never agree on the values to unite around. It may be impossible to reassert the historical and traditional values even for the sake of national survival.

The failure of multiculturalism has left a disunited nation of competing tribes and sub-cultures each with their own agendas. Group against group, value against value, all struggling for supremacy. Community cohesion! What community cohesion? We have become a society without unity. Cohesion replaced with compliance. Enforced political correctness through workplace bullying, thought-crime legislation and suspiciously Orwellian initiatives like the one described by JR @19:30 above.

I can understand why the police want to safeguard us against a Brevik but the initiative in Lancashire strays into thought policing. It seems we are no longer free to hold an opinion. Is free speech, and freedom of association to be trampled underfoot in an overzealous effort to stamp out incitement and violence?

17 August 2011 at 20:54  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

non mouse said..."Bitb- I don't understand. First Black is White. Now Ten is Seven!!
There is surely more theology to this than I know -:)"

The only thing stands out to me, is that the original one God Spake, the latter was written.

Like I always say about the Bible, it points to the spoken, living Word as being superior.

Like most of our true laws are unwritten, such as say, the peace treaty we believe in which surely the Crown now is in conflict.

17 August 2011 at 21:08  
Blogger non mouse said...

Britain never was a nation of Christian believers ... that's a huge claim, MPE (20:54). It seems likely that most thinkers will have doubted at some time or another; but to maintain that we've never been believers is pushing it.

For a people who didn't believe, we did a good job of building churches and graveyards, schools, universities, literacy in our languages, a legal system, and even what used to be the mother of Parliaments..... etc. "to the Glory of God."

17 August 2011 at 21:15  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

""It can happen online and people are ‘groomed’ into a certain belief and ideology."

One minute you're light-heartedly questioning the moon landing and the next you find yourself chasing 'muzzies' down Chorley high street and wearing Union Flag underpants. Just say no.

17 August 2011 at 21:18  
Blogger The Minister for Public Enlightenment said...

Non Mouse@21:15

Sorry if I have given the wrong impression. My point is that historically the number of people who had genuine faith in Jesus Christ appears to have been much lower than those who only made an outward show of Christian respectability.

I've been reading some sermons from 150 yrs ago and it seems to me that preachers like Spurgeon had no illusions concerning the spiritual state of their congregations. The churches were certainly full and the congregations may have trembled on a Sunday but for the majority it was all back to worldliness and dodgy dealing on Monday.

17 August 2011 at 21:36  
Blogger asdfsdfadf said...

Father Mann:

For the most part, I agree with you, but I believe you are leaving out one very important factor in your equation: the pernicious and unrelenting effect of Marxism on western society for the last 60 years.

It is, in fact, one of the major forces working against Christianity, and is a major source or energy to the secularists. Years of unrealistic social policy and an ever-growing welfare state have helped to create a generation of English who are confused, immoral, cynical, and nihilistic.

I would recommend Theodore Dalrymple's article in the City Journal to your attention.

17 August 2011 at 21:50  
Blogger English Pensioner said...

You don't ask why we have this new idolatrous religion.
Could it be that the Christian Church is to blame due to it abandoning large parts of its traditional role in society and failing to stand up for itself in the face of an increasingly secular society.
Very few schools have a Christian assembly these days and of course the schools mustn't say anything about morals because to do so is being "judgemental", and that would never do. Church schools are being forced to to take non-Christians and then effectively withdraw from teaching any faith. At the same time, atheists secure increasing publicity and are never challenged by the church. It appears to adopt an aloof position as if discussing such matters is beneath its dignity. Except in a few cases, the CofE is now catering for an ageing population, and if it does not take some action will be virtually non-existent in the UK within the lifetime of our children.

The Church has done nothing to counter this decline. When are our Bishops going to speak out as they would have done in the past? We need clergy who are prepared to speak out, attract attention and push the Christian viewpoint just as every other organisation does.
We've had dozens of experts from all fields on television and radio pontificating on the causes of the riots, but to my knowledge, not one Churchman. The Church needs to have spokesmen available to appear on the television or the radio at the drop of a hat; they have to go out and push to get on these programmes, not just sit back and hope a producer will ring.
The Church has got to go out and fight back. I'm sure amongst all the churchgoers it has specialists in almost every field who would be willing to help and advise where necessary. It just needs someone to get it organised and to come out fighting.
If it doesn't, by the end of the century we will have the Americans sending missionaries here to convert us to Christianity.

17 August 2011 at 22:57  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

Once the world becomes a market place above all else, "Mammon" is king. The bull of gold to which people bow and make the offerings it finds pleasing.

People become driven by the need to perform, not for excellence as its own reward, but for personal reward and gain. Service to and for a community as an unselfish act becomes service for self. The need to competitively aquire replaces any notion of solidarity and sharing between people. The demand for more consumption is driven by a global capitalist and monetary system that is at best amoral and, left alone, it develops the amorality necessary to stay alive.

"Gangta's" of all sorts emerge. Some from Eton and some from Peckham. People need protection or a means of aquiring more. Public servants have replaced vocation with promotion. Captains of banking and industry feather their nests. Icons from the world of popular culture flaunt their wealth.

The problem is not that children no longer attend Sunday School. It is that people think Sunday School no longer offers an answer to the questions they have. The glorious Lord and Saviour of Love is being drowned out the noise of the market place.

17 August 2011 at 23:17  
Blogger The Way of the Dodo said...

English Pensioner

I like your fighting spirit!

God save us from evangelical christians from the USA and the importation of an even more abrasisve form of the American ethic.

The Jesuits will, of course, lend a held ... ;o)

17 August 2011 at 23:29  
Blogger Oswin said... ever!

18 August 2011 at 02:35  
Blogger OurSally said...

>Amongst other things, He taught them not to loot from shops and to respect the police

Funny that, I never came across that bit in the bronze-age guide to sheepherding.

If you want to live in a true Christian society, try Uganda if you're gay, try Ireland if you're divorced, try the Southern States if you're different in any way. Maybe you could restart the Inquisition or the Crusades? How very Christian.

18 August 2011 at 07:18  
Blogger D. Singh said...

‘Amongst other things, He taught them not to loot from shops and to respect the police.’

Don’t loot:

The Ten Commandments

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work ... For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

5. Honour thy father and thy mother.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Respect the police:

Romans 13:1-7 states: Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

18 August 2011 at 08:56  
Blogger D. Singh said...

‘The ten commandments, by the way, were given by God as the sign of the covenant between him and the people he had redeemed from bondage in Egypt. It is remarkable and rather sad to see Christians talking of them as though they are an eternal moral standard given to all.’

Mr Anabaptist

What if the Ten Commandments were in existence prior to the birth of Moses himself? What if they existed as laws in Heaven before the fall of Lucifer? Did Lucifer break the law(s)?

18 August 2011 at 09:13  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Who is Ezekiel talking about?

Ezekiel 28:12-17 .....Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 August 2011 at 09:26  
Blogger D. Singh said...

What did the Ark contain?

Exodus 25:16-21 .....And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee. And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof. And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be. And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

18 August 2011 at 09:27  
Blogger D. Singh said...

It contained the Ten Commandments:

Ecclesiastes 12:13 .....'Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.'

Revelation 14:12 .....'Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.'

Revelation 22:14 .....'Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life.'

18 August 2011 at 09:35  
Blogger I am Stan said...

Romans 13:1-7 states: Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities

Oh I don`t know about that lil nugget, blind obedience to authority sounds very un-christian to me.I`m cooperative except in situations where laws or instructions/orders depart from the basic moral and righteous principles of God’s Word as I understand them, which seems to happen a lot these days, unless its just me and I`m a wretched sinner.

“Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge, innit” (Acts 4:19).

18 August 2011 at 09:48  
Blogger D. Singh said...

It is written:

Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.

18 August 2011 at 09:55  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Deut. 4:2 “You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take anything from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 12:32 “Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.”
Proverbs 30:5-6 “Every word of God is pure; he is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.”

1 Cor. 4:6 “that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.”

18 August 2011 at 10:02  
Blogger Shadow said...

I am Stan.....

You hit the nail right on the head..... innit!

18 August 2011 at 10:19  
Blogger Man with No Name said...

D. Singh

Yawn, Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

So what are YOU saying needs to be done?

18 August 2011 at 11:36  
Blogger D. Singh said...

Man with No Name

No one seems to be presenting a solution to solve the underlying problems. We know what it is: moral collapse. And this phenomenon has been growing since the 1960s.

I understand why politicians do not wish to address it as it would mean repealing the Human Rights Act 1998; withdrawing from the European Convention on Human Rights and some provisions in the Equality Act 2010 to repeal (that contain the provisions of European Union Directives).

Let me make this clear: British and European human rights legislation deposits rights with individuals with corresponding duties on the State to satisfy those rights (this is very expensive). Compare that with the US Bill of Rights – its approach is entirely different: its acts as a shield against governmental interference – it sets limits on the State.

The failure to address the underlying problem means, in effect, by inference, that Mr Pickles (Communities Secretary) has accepted the Left’s analysis that the root of the problem is the failure to redistribute wealth – presumably so that people can buy TVs, phones, track shoes, hats, sweets and drinks (both alcoholic and mineral water (still and sparkling)).

Very well then. Given that the underlying problems are not going to be addressed and on the balance of probabilities the disturbances will be repeated; then more prisons need to be built and the Government will be compelled to be more authoritarian.

You cannot, you must not, expect a people who have morally collapsed to be self-governing.

18 August 2011 at 11:53  
Blogger Jon said...

Anabaptist makes a very good point, D Singh. Why hark back to the 1960s at the point at which the degradation of society happened - is this because it reinforces your belief that more openness about sex has led, directly, undeniably and inevitably, to the looting of Croydon?

And if this is your belief, could you please explain why looting hasn't broken out in other societies which have been similarly liberated from the oppressive restriction on thought you are so anxious to return to?

And what, I wonder, do you make of instances of mob rule which predate the 1960s or even predate the birth of Christ?

If you're ever going to get to the bottom of this, you have to approach the problem with an open mind to understand and tackle its root causes rather than imposing solutions which happen to fit your preconceptions and wistful longing for an age which didn't exist.

It appears to me that IDS is talking with the saintly Mr Field about a sensible carrot and stick approach - but the imposition of your morality will fail, because most people will agree with you about the sacrosanct nature of private property and the right to quiet enjoyment, but will see the contradiction which appears to elude you, between the right to quiet enjoyment and the right of IDS to impose his doctrine on those unfortunate enough to rely on his department for welfare.

The original post is interesting, and the vicar should be commended for positing an opinion, but for me it sort of plays into the hands of the marxists who suggest that religion is the opium of the masses. Their response, like those of the secularists, will merely be that the masses have moved onto harder drugs and the church is upset by its loss of market share, and it's a tough charge to counter with Bible verses and discussion of false deities.

18 August 2011 at 13:48  
Blogger G. Tingey said...

"Ganghsta" & "Mammon" are false "gods" - agreed.

One slight problem: ALL GODS ARE FALSE.
None of them exist, or even detectable in any form whatsoever ....

... Oh, and please try to remember that "communism" is a religion, like all the others.
You can tell by: 1] The false predictions
2] The "holy" books
3] the sects
4] the body-count

Now what?

18 August 2011 at 15:10  
Blogger Gallovidian said...

Good picture YG, I see you agree with Kay Burleigh about 3:20 into this clip about the ethnicity of the rioters:

18 August 2011 at 16:25  
Blogger non mouse said...

One insulting bandwagon cliche of these times is the accusation that all our memories are of a perfect Britain that never existed.

Well Britain was once a better place to know, live in, and visit. I used to travel worldwide; and every time I came Home I would look around and breathe the air, loving everything about this place that was so wonderful compared to everywhere else I'd been.

That reaction has changed, and my heart breaks instead. Now memory turns me to Shakespeare's Sonnet 94:

They that have power to hurt and will do none,
That do not do the thing they most do show,
Who, moving others, are themselves as stone,
Unmoved, cold, and to temptation slow,
They rightly do inherit Heaven's graces
And husband nature's riches from expense;
They are the lords and owners of their faces,
Others but stewards of their excellence.
The summer's flower is to the summer sweet,
Though to itself it only live and die,
But if that flower with base infection meet,
The basest weed outbraves his dignity:
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;
Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds.

18 August 2011 at 16:52  
Blogger Oswin said...

non mouse: you're not wrong!

18 August 2011 at 17:23  
Blogger non mouse said...

Thank you MPE (21:36) ... Oh, I see! And of course I agree that we've always had our share of whited sepulchres.

And yet, it seems to me, Christianity teaches that we are all works in progress. There is only one Perfect Person: He showed us the Way, but no one ever said it was easy. Indeed, they told me it's very difficult.

After all, He paid the 'teleological' worldly price. Was that perhaps because He came to uphold the Law (Matt 5:17); He challenged the moneychangers in the Temple; and He taught us to render unto Caesar what is his (which can be interpreted as nothing)?

We are frail creatures, then. But I think Augustine suggested that we are enjoined to lighten the darkness wherever we can, in view of John I:
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

So thank you.

18 August 2011 at 17:29  
Blogger non mouse said...

And yes, Bitb (2128) -- I think you are right. Is it not one of the insights we can draw from His Grace's blog: that we must not forget the Spirit of the Law?
Perhaps there's another connection to be made by remembering that the Word was made both Flesh (Christ), and flesh (the rest of us, as in Genesis). I can't help always noting that Latin spiritus = breathing, breath, which is also one meaning of Old English gast (ghost).

In another sense, gast also means man, human being - as in we who developed writing for our purposes of making visible the invisible spirit and breath. A primary purpose seems to have been ... well, the setting of Law in stone! Thence to papyrus, wood, and vellum, - and to the oldest known document in English: the law code of Aethelberht of Kent(560-616).* Doubtless it was inscribed under the aegis of Churchmen, the only literate class. And perhaps it is that when laws are made material, there is less excuse for ignoring or forgetting them. Trouble is, I do agree, being so imperfect--oh, how we do misuse our words, be they in breath, or in flesh!!!

I wonder if perhaps we may come full circle, too -- what with the ethereal nature of electronic writing, an' all...:)

*Yes, I know the oldest surviving copy is fourteenth century. But that's the other thing about writing, isn't it? We keep our records, and some evidence for our memories.

18 August 2011 at 18:25  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Too true non mouse,

Some evidence for our memories and also for time out of memory.

As in the Man of Law's Tale and the divine origins of English common law.

18 August 2011 at 19:25  
Blogger whitespacebug said...

Minister, " everyone does what he regards as right in his own eyes." I assume that since you are part of the set "everyone " you are including yourself?

I guess it doesn't really matter, it's rubbish anyway.

18 August 2011 at 21:13  
Blogger Man with No Name said...

So why not just say what you think?
Better to say how to apply scripture than quoting reams of it.
Not saying I agree with you.

18 August 2011 at 22:09  
Blogger non mouse said...

What a useful reading, bitb--I can see how that would work. Aelle (of Northumbria -559-89) being well placed to set it going!

wv: forlampe

19 August 2011 at 05:12  
Blogger len said...

Jesus said'Take up your Cross ,deny self and follow Me'.

Not too surprising that modern culture says the reverse.'Put self on a pedestal,feed self with all that it desires The bling covered gangsta rappa personifies this self obsessed culture and unfortunately this is what many of our youth model themselves on.

This is the Godless rebellious culture we have created.

What is cold but absence of heat?
What is darkness but absence of light?
What is evil but absence of God?
.........what have we done?

19 August 2011 at 07:48  
Blogger G. Tingey said...

non mouse
The is no "perfect person"
There never was anay "perfect person"

As for "applying scripture", and remembering what the OT says about killing, stoning, torturing, and behaving like the vile murderer Gideon generally - coupled with the Articles statement that the OT is NOT contrary to the NT ....
I think I'd rather not, thank you.
Just stick to the "Golden Rule" - which pre-dates christianity.

Ien - VERY close, almost there ....
What is cold but absence of heat?
What is darkness but absence of light?
What is evil but absence of God?
Mainly, of course, because there isn't a "god", nut also:

Evil is almost always, sefishness.
Not "Pride" as the bible says - selfishness - ME first.
Look at the great dictators and murderers of history.
Pride comes AFTER the selfishness.

And, as to:.........what have we done?
We have improved our lot planetarily enormously, in spite of the opposition of all the major religions to technical progress, and health improvements.

Like the computer-net we are using now.

19 August 2011 at 08:37  
Blogger Oswin said...

non mouse :@ 05:12

Great...Grandfather would be heartened to hear you say so. :o)

And for my part, I think you've 'grown-up' wonderfully.

19 August 2011 at 17:14  
Blogger non mouse said...

Bless you, Oswin! And may blessings also be upon the heritage we owe the ancestors!

At one point in the growing up, we lived on a hilltop remote from an electricity supply. I loved the oil lamps we used; but the moths distressed me, because they insisted on beating themselves to tatters against the hot glass. Surely, I thought, it must hurt almost as much as the flame would when it incinerated them.

One never ceases to wonder why -- though perhaps the zoologists have come up with something about the instinct that gets ephemera out of the cocoon in the first place :)

19 August 2011 at 18:42  
Blogger Oswin said...

non mouse:

You ''lived on a hill top remote from an electricity supply. I loved the oil lamps we used ...''


You're not one of my sisters by any chance ?!?!?!?

When I was old enough not to smash everything I touched, it was my job to fill the lamps and trim the wicks; although I was never trusted to clean the glass-chimneys and shades.

20 August 2011 at 02:24  
Blogger non mouse said...

No,Oswin-- not your sister! But what fun... and I did get to polish the glass :)

Our hilltop was, again, far away ---but because locals called their places after homelands like "The Isles," and "Wembley," so my old Dad called ours "Lindisfarne." It was very beautiful, and the fascination continued....

20 August 2011 at 13:03  
Blogger Oswin said...

You can't go far wrong with a name like 'Lindisfarne' - I've had many a holiday on the original.

21 August 2011 at 01:13  

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