Tuesday, June 19, 2012

The CofE and the EU – ‘Not in my name’

So much has been written recently by sundry Anglicans who favour same-sex marriage, with quite a few ranting/blogging/tweeting ‘Not in my name’, in answer to the Church’s ‘Response to the Government Equalities Office Consultation -“Equal Civil Marriage”- from the Church of England’. It is as though there were some ‘I’m gay-friendly Spartacus’ campaign to confound those evil traditionalist bigots who have absolutely no authority to express their homo-sceptical views under the aegis and in the name of the Church of England.

Well, here we are again with an outburst of Europhilia, if not Eurotica, from that very self-same Church, which goes on and on with its quest to ‘encourage the religious communities to present projects meetings, seminars social activities...; to contribute to the recognition and understanding of the ethical and spiritual dimension of European unification and Politics’.

Daniel Hannan MEP observed four years ago:
As regular readers of this blog will know, one of my own recurrent themes is that the EU always pits the top brass against the Poor Bloody Infantry. This is true of the CBI, the TUC, the NFU, most political parties and, for that matter, most churches. I'll never forget walking past my local parish church in 1992 and seeing, among the prayers being posted, one for "the Maastricht Treaty and peace in Europe".
Now the Church of England has contributed to a report by the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee: ‘The future of the European Union: UK Government policy’. And on behalf of all communicants of the Established Church, the Archbishops’ Council says (in summary):

• The Church of England is a Church established by law in the UK but it is also by virtue of its history a European Church. It recognizes that to have any influence in Brussels it needs to work in partnership with others. To this end it has invested time, energy and resources in building appropriate bilateral and multilateral relations with key strategic partners across Europe.

• At the December 2011 European Council, the United Kingdom found itself not only without allies, but without credibility as a negotiating partner as it opposed measures which were intended to achieve broad policy goals which are fully in line with UK national interest. This exposed the domestic constraints on the British government and left its partners with the impression that it was an unreliable partner. An opportunity to show solidarity with partners was missed. The UK must work to rebuild trust with its EU partners.

• Successive British governments have failed to articulate a policy towards the United Kingdom’s closest partners that sustains public opinion while enabling it to take a constructive line across the board. Unless future governments develop more constructive and positive conceptions of and commitments to the EU and are able to sell them to an increasingly skeptical domestic audience then Britain could find itself slowly drifting towards the exit. Rather than looking to formalize a two-tier structure the Government should use existing Treaty provisions on enhanced oooperation to press for a more flexible multi-speed Europe with variable membership across different policy spheres.

• By agreeing a legally binding intergovernmental agreement outside the scope of the EU Treaties, signatories to the fiscal compact have marginalised the EU institutions and in so doing weakened their ability to defend the single market. These new arrangements could also have significant implications for the EU’s common judicial space and common foreign and security policy. There is a very real worry therefore that the fiscal compact while saving the Euro might over time contribute to the EU’s demise.

• It is in the fundamental interests of the UK that the problems of the Eurozone are resolved and it is in the UK’s interests that this fiscal compact is folded back into existing EU Treaties as soon as possible. Those wishing to press ahead with a stability union should be able to do so using existing Treaty provisions that allow for enhanced cooperation. The development of a two-tier or even a multi-speed Europe is not without its riskes but it is preferable that such a development builds on existing Treaties rather than departing from them.

All of which amounts to the CofE opposing a referendum on EU membership. And there are some absolute gems in the detail:

...The Archbishop of Canterbury has a permanent representative to the EU institutions in Brussels and members of its Europe Bishop’s Panel are frequent visitors to Brussels and Strasbourg.

...The Church of England’s policy on Europe has been framed by a succession of papers which have been endorsed by the General Synod, its representative assembly. The Church of England engages with the European Union to ensure a values based approach to Europe's development. It does so in order to build a humane, socially conscious and sustainable Europe at peace with itself and its neighbours.

...The decision not to join the Euro until the economic conditions are right, and only then if approved by referenda, has meant that Britain has always been detached from conversations regarding the governance of the Eurozone. One of the stated reasons why past governments have opposed membership of the Eurozone is that along with monetary union must come closer fiscal integration. There is therefore a ‘remorseless logic’ of closer integration in-built into the Euro project that Britain has rightly or wrongly decided to exclude itself from.

...Moving beyond Eurozone specifics, the 2011 European Union Act acts as an emergency brake on Britain's relationship with the EU by requiring any proposed EU Treaty or Treaty change to be subject to a referendum. As a number of Lords Spiritual pointed out at the Second Reading, the Bill ties the government’s hands in future Treaty negotiations by delegating authority to the people acting through a referendum. The relatively negative state of public opinion towards the EU (in 2011 opinion polls indicated for the first time a majority in favour of leaving the EU) opens up the prospect of referendum defeat for any future government.

...The December 2011 European Council showed, however, that the 2011 European Union Act does not serve as an emergency brake on the integrationist tendencies of others. That other countries, even non‐Eurozone states, are now willing to openly press ahead without Britain, even if that means working outside the formal structures of the EU, is symptomatic of Britain’s waning influence in Europe and its declining ability to cultivate allies in Europe.

...Against this uncertain background future British governments need to develop constructive and positive conceptions and commitments to the EU, sell these ideas to an increasingly sceptical domestic audience, and find friends in Europe. Unless it does so the UK could find itself slowly drifting towards the exit. That would be a travesty given the positive contribution that Britain has made to the EU since it joined in 1973.

...Any notion that the UK could somehow turn to ‘like‐minded’ member states to define an alternative to a core of more ‘integrationist’ member states was shown by events in December to be unrealistic. The problem of the December European Council was not that of two camps, but of a single camp with one major player outside it, despite its vital interest being at stake.

...The events of December have shown that, despite differences of approach between member states, almost all wish to travel together based on a recognition of continuing shared interests and a desire for solidarity in the face of the most significant policy challenge for the EU since its inception. A two‐tier Europe is simply not on the agenda. We suspect Europe’s future will be more messy and complex with Europe developing a multispeed approach with variable membership across more closely coordinated policy spheres.

...Popular disenchantment with the EU, might be most marked in the UK, but the EU’s crisis of legitimacy is a Europe‐wide rather than a uniquely UK problem. As suggested by the Lord Bishop of Guildford in the House of Lords debate on the EU on 16 February 2012, Europe needs a revival of the vision of Europe which fired the EU's founders and which is deeply rooted in Europe's many cultures and, now, its many communities of faith.

...As suggested by the Lord Bishop of Exeter in a supplementary question in the House of Lords on 8 December 2011 the EU’s international reputation has already been dented by its handling of the Eurozone crisis, but its soft power could be further eroded if others find the way it organises itself less attractive. We suspect it will be hard for the EU to meet future challenges if an important geopolitical country such as Britain is excluded from its core.

...It is in Britain’s interests that this fiscal compact and/or its provisions are folded back into existing EU Treaties as soon as possible. Those wishing to press ahead with a stability union should be allowed to do so using existing Treaty provisions that allow for enhanced cooperation. The development of a two‐speed or even a multi‐speed Europe is not without its risks, but it is preferable that such a development builds upon the existing Treaties rather than departing from them.

...In terms of safeguards, the Government should press for a deepening of the single market in order to strengthen the ties that bind all member states together regardless of which lane they are in. This step might be productively linked to pressing for enhanced cooperation in other areas where Britain has a competitive advantage and strategic interest such as foreign and defence policy.

...Taken together these measures might go some way to dispelling the impression given in December 2011 that Britain was being awkward for the sake of it. We recognise that this strategy is unlikely to find immediate favour with a euro‐sceptic electorate, but over time it might help to refute the assertion that the EU works against British interests.

If His Grace may on this one occasion, uniquely and extraordinarily (for the end is nigh), adopt the first person singular: the Archbishops Council of the Church of England speaks ‘Not in my name’.


Blogger AndrewSillis said...

With the rise of 'not in my name', one wonders how the Church is supposed to contribute to public debate.
Clearly our existing systems provide responses which do not always adequately reflect the diversity of thought within the Church. However the alternative, it seems to me, will be inordinately long Deanery Synod meetings and impossibly slow reporting back processes.
The existing systems, whether or not you agree with their conclusions, are at least carefully considered and thoughtful. Their slating in the media, frequently the result of inadequate investigation and spontaneous sensationalist comment.
I would not want the Church simply to refrain from comment on any topic where there is likely a polarisation of thought amongst its members. But neither can we inform and test the views of all members before making comment.
So surely we must employ the best skills of the Church to make comment on our behalf, and expect that sometimes we will disagree with their conclusions.

19 June 2012 at 07:45  
Blogger Belsay Bugle said...

Nor mine!

"My kingdom is not of this world"

19 June 2012 at 08:15  
Blogger Preacher said...

The E.U will never be accepted by the majority of the British Public.
It was born in secret as the 'Common Market' & grew to maturity by stealth & deceit. It remains the illegitimate child of corruption on a grand scale.
It will fall, just as its forerunners did as depicted by the statue in the book of Daniel. Its demise will be awful, when the whole Idol collapses as the feet crumble, & the cracks are beginning to show, in Greece, Spain & Italy. It can only be shored up for a short time.
I'm reminded of those awful pictures of 9/11, in the midst of a safe & secure environment, tragedy & death as the two buildings collapse & people run screaming for safety.
Pretence that a condemned structure is really safe & just needs a bit of filler & goodwill is lunacy on a grand scale. to stay in the place & hope it will work out is suicide.
The government owes it to the people who elected them to unlock the doors & allow those that want to, to escape, before it's too late.
The dreamers in the Archbishops Council of the C of E speak 'not in my name' either.

19 June 2012 at 08:21  
Blogger IanCad said...

This is astonishing stuff YG.
I'm sure I speak for many when I say that without your diligence, persistence and sheer hard work we would have no knowledge of what goes on in smoke filled rooms.

But!! The more I read posts like these the more I sympathise with those who would disestablish the CofE.
I know the constitutional issues involved.The ceremonial, cultural and historical aspects of such a move would be just as profound.
However, when senior members of the CofE are (admittedly, in a nascent manner) discussing the affairs of state with a view to accommodating the whims of a foreign power, then a halt has to be made.

19 June 2012 at 09:21  
Blogger Paul said...

There's a simple solution of course: Church discipline. Bar the unrepentant from the Eucharist.

Of course, that would exclude a great number of Bishops, Archdeacons, Canons and presbyters across the country but we might just get another reformation.

19 June 2012 at 09:23  
Blogger C.Law said...

Many on this blog have complained that the C0fE has consistently failed to make a principled stand on a variety of different matters. This time the Church has well and truly nailed it's flag to the mast. Such a pity that the mast in question is on the ship which is sailing in the wrong direction!

19 June 2012 at 09:30  
Blogger Willie said...

I wish the state Church would concentrate on saving souls rather than commenting on political matters which are beyond its understanding.
As an aside, I went to the Christmas Day service, last Christmas, in my church at my family home in the country. It was so banal as to be pointless in attending. I could not but compare it to a Lutheran service I attended whilst spending Christmas with a German family who are close friends some years ago. I could follow it word for word from the book of Common Prayer and felt moved and improved in consequence. European Church links ought to developed bilaterally; they are antithetical to the EU and should be encouraged.

19 June 2012 at 09:45  
Blogger john in cheshire said...

Why is it that in all of reports such as this by the CofE rulers, it is we the English, who have to make changes. Why is there never an analysis that shows the wishes of the majority in England to be the correct ones and Europe to be in fatal, socialist error?
This is just another example of the fifth column in our nation, destroying us from within.

19 June 2012 at 09:49  
Blogger Simon said...

Surely they are butting in on the responsibilities of the Bishop of Gibraltar in Europe? I thought Continental matters were his preserve. As he has a pro-cathedral in Brussels, what more involvement is needed?

19 June 2012 at 10:11  
Blogger Roy said...

Bring back human sacrifice! The Greeks must be sacrificed for the greater good of the Euro. The moral justification for this can be found in the pages of the holy Guardian.

19 June 2012 at 10:15  
Blogger graham wood said...

Many of the sentiments expressed could have come straight out of press statements from the pro EU "Britain In Europe" movement, or from the EU Commission itself.

Most of us, even non Christians in the UK, understand what the Apb's Council does not, namely that the EU is an agressively atheist organisation, persecuting of Christians, corrupt to its core, and fixated by blind ideology which brooks no opposition.
In a word, the vanity project which is the EU is hostile to, and mutually incompatible with Christianity.
How refreshing then to read God's verdict upon such an organisation, and other nations. Here is the proper perspective:

"Behold,the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance.....
All nations before Him are as nothing; and they are counted to Him less than nothing, and vanity" (Isa.40)
It appears that the Apb's Council, in its outdated vision of the political dreams of the EU is about 40 years out of date.
Dream on Council, and yes Cranny, 'not in my name'

19 June 2012 at 10:31  
Blogger AndrewSillis said...

Simon said: "Surely they are butting in on the responsibilities of the Bishop of Gibraltar in Europe?"

Not so. The Bishop of Gibraltar has episcopal responsibilities for the Church of England congregations in his Diocese, just like any other Diocesan Bishop.
The Archbishop of Canterbury has an official representative to the EU, Canon Gary Wilton. Of course Canon Wilton's work takes place geographically within the Diocese in Europe, but he is the ABC's representative not the Bishop of Gibraltar's.
Nevertheless here is something from the Diocese in Europe's Website about Canon Wilton's ministry... http://europe.anglican.org/news/news/post/301-behind-the-scenes-at-the-eu-plus-ministry-in-brussels/

19 June 2012 at 12:24  
Blogger Jonathan James | Associate Solicitor said...

Pure politics - if politics can ever be pure! Or, to put it differently, nothing to do with the spiritual dimension what so ever and therefore no business of those appointed to lead the Church and the Church only. If they want to have a policy on this sort of issue, they need to leave the leadership of the Church and become full time politicians. What could be more straightforward or clearcut?

19 June 2012 at 12:56  
Blogger Atlas Shrugged said...

If His Grace may on this one occasion, uniquely and extraordinarily (for the end is nigh), adopt the first person singular: the Archbishops Council of the Church of England speaks ‘Not in my name’.

Which begs the question. In who's name does it speak, for it quite obviously does not speak for the vast majority of its misguided foot soldiers?

Indeed how many institutions of either the fully democratic or otherwise kind do speak for the ordinary people they claim to represent?

I contend that the answer is none whatsoever, least of all Trades Unions, and The Conservative Party.

There was once a time when this fact was not so obvious, that time long since passed.

Now days the elect don't care whether or not they have gained wide support for their mendacity, because they are assured that their bosses have the people by the proverbial balls. Which, IMO, to a very great extent, they do.

In an age when hardly anyone can even pay their basic living expenses without recourse to government hand outs, who remains to carry the torch of Freedom for the vast majority?

Conservatism is now an extinct species as far as our masters are concerned. Our owners henchmen within the establishment, sometimes known as Common Purpose graduates, or the New Brown Shirts, among many others, have now been 'educated' towards this conclusion over several generations.

It is hard enough already to seek justice as defined by basic property rights, within a single nation state using either constitutional or democratic processes.

It will undoubtedly be absolutely impossible to ultimately seek such things within a European or World State.

The poor of this world have been deliberately condemned to remain as such, to serve as a method by which to reduce the vast majority of the western world to a very similar state of affairs.

In true Marxist fashion, the middle classes are being systematically destroyed, while the ultimate fate of the deliberately impoverished classes remains dangerously uncertain, to say the least.

The end is indeed nigh, and it seems nothing can be done to get ourselves off of the track even when many can clearly see the train coming.

This is where our supposed leaders have most dishonestly lead us. Which is to overt ELITE run COMMUNISM of the worst possible kind.

The train is coming yet we the people have little idea as to who is really driving it.

Neither do we understand as to where the track is leading, after it has crushed our moral remains under its wheels, even though the track is clearly visible, and therefore the trains destination distinctly knowable.

Speakers of the TRUTH are described as mad, while liars gain knighthoods.

Those who work the hardest, are rewarded the least.

Those who save are every more impoverished, while those who borrow and spend are presented as sublime examples for the rest to follow.

The entire world is now upside down, and set to remain that way for a very long time indeed.

19 June 2012 at 13:20  
Blogger bluedog said...

Your Grace, it's a master stroke.

Threatened with dis-establishment (privatisation), and thus the end of funding from the UK Exchequer, the CofE brains trust seems to have decided to attach itself to the euro-teat. As the owner of valuable and culturally significant buildings, and in itself part of the rich tapestry of European history, why not put in a submission for a bailout? Every other man and his dog has, and if Rumpy and Barroso are silly enough to fall for it, why not?

19 June 2012 at 13:58  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

Ah, if only the words "Not in my name" had been uttered in the 16th Century!

19 June 2012 at 14:17  
Blogger Temporary said...

Your Grace, have you seen the line-up of the C of E team that produced this effort?

"Charles Reed is part of the policy adviser team for the Church of England, taking a lead on foreign policy issues. Previously, Charles worked as a policy analyst for Burson Marteller in London and the European Commission in Brussels."

"Simon Stanley is Deputy Parliamentary Advisor to the Church of England and assistant to the Second Church Estates Commissioner supporting his work in the House of Commons. Before joining the NCI's Simon worked for Sharon Bowles MEP and Rt Hon Nick Clegg MP in his Parliamentary Office."

(By the by, "David Shreeve" is involved with the "biodiversity of its churchyards".)


19 June 2012 at 15:39  
Blogger Temporary said...

Two years ago, the bishops said something different:


Why so, Your Grace?

Another point, lifted from a book*:

After the Lords Spiritual voted in 2008 to pass the Lisbon Treaty without a referendum, the EU rewarded them with this:

"The Commission has sent a reasoned opinion to the United Kingdom for incorrectly implementing EU rules [Directive 2000/78] prohibiting discrimination based on religion or belief, disability, age or sexual orientation in employment and occupation. In the reasoned opinion sent to the United Kingdom, the Commission pointed out that exceptions to the principle of non-discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation for religious employers are broader than that permitted by the directive.” This “reasoned opinion” was telling the government that the Muslim Council Of Great Britain, for instance, cannot discriminate, on grounds of sexuality, against Graham Norton if he ever seeks employment with them. It affected Catholic adoption agencies and others too.

The press release also said: “We call on the UK government to make the necessary changes to its anti-discrimination legislation as soon as possible so as to fully comply with the EU rules. In this context, we welcome the proposed Equality Bill and hope that it will come into force quickly.”

* Europe On 387m Euros A Day: http://tinyurl.com/figg387

19 June 2012 at 15:57  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Quoting the prophet Isaiah, Mr Graham Wood tells us:
"Behold,the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance.....
All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity"

There is a real sense, though, Graham, in which the EU could say the very same thing. Just change nation to nation state.

19 June 2012 at 17:21  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
It would be hard to prevent the CofE leaders from making comment re. the EU if they see measures that would harm their members. To the communicants of your Grace, we can see no value in continuing membership of the EU and the people would benefit from severing the link.
Unless the Bishops have some amazing revelation (which is unlikely as most revelations are given to Christians) they should focus their efforts on maintaining their flock and reaching out to the lost. If the leadership of the CofE were doing that, they might be listened to.

19 June 2012 at 18:10  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

"The Church of England’s policy on Europe has been framed by a succession of papers which have been endorsed by the General Synod, its representative assembly."

Guess democracy doesn't really work when it comes to religio-politico matters then - some might also want to say on matters of theology too.

19 June 2012 at 18:14  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Your Grace. If His Grace may on this one occasion, uniquely and extraordinarily (for the end is nigh), adopt the first person singular: the Archbishops Council of the Church of England speaks ‘Not in my name’.

Hmmm. The end is nigh, eh. Do expand old fellow...

19 June 2012 at 18:36  
Blogger graham wood said...

'There is a real sense, though, Graham, in which the EU could say the very same thing. Just change nation to nation state."

A. I agree the EU could say that, except of course it is even less of a nation, or nation state, though as we know it is trying desperately hard to become a state in its own right and to displace nation states entirely.
Hopefully within the not too distant future the EU will not even register as a "drop"

19 June 2012 at 19:31  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...


Well spotted. I do hope our host's end is not nigh? Or was he referring to the 'end times'?

19 June 2012 at 19:35  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Not sure old bird, but have just come back from the off licence. A fellow must be prepared for the worst...

19 June 2012 at 19:46  
Blogger Anabaptist said...

Graham, I think you may have missed my clumsily made point. I meant that the EU, like God in the quoted passage, regards nation states with scorn and contempt.

19 June 2012 at 23:15  
Blogger non mouse said...

Thanks for confirming that, Anabaptist @ 23:15.

Of course, their arbitrary assumption of role of God -- defines them as AntiChrist.

So whatever the solution to Your Grace's cryptic clue, some portent of the apocalyptic end ... approacheth the horizon :).

Or should that be :( ?

19 June 2012 at 23:48  
Blogger The Way of Dodo the Dude said...

non mouse
Better go tell the Anglican Bishops they're actively supporting the anti-Christ through their support of the European Union. I think they really need to know this, don't you?

Funny how we read Scripture differently. I've always taken this wonderful passage in Isaiah to mean history is in God's hands whatever nations might think or do. His purposes are worked out in His time and in His way. He's not scornful or contemptuous, these are human traits. He's Omnipotent, He doesn't need to be!

The Germans are being political and pursuing what they see to be in their national interests. Other states in Europe have to determine if its in their interests to stay within the Eurozone. Nations have always done this. Do keep your feet on the ground!

20 June 2012 at 03:00  
Blogger non mouse said...

Forgive me for thinking further, Your Grace. However, considering the “gems” you post, this one is especially breath-taking:

...[T]he 2011 European Union Act acts as an emergency brake on Britain's relationship with the EU by requiring any proposed EU Treaty or Treaty change to be subject to a referendum. As a number of Lords Spiritual pointed out at the Second Reading, the Bill ties the government’s hands in future Treaty negotiations by delegating authority to the people acting through a referendum.

Er... right, then. ‘So let’s not pretend that “elected” governments should be delegates! But let’s keep on pretending that referenda serve to delegate authority’

As the prophet said of the victims, then:
“But this is a people robbed and spoiled,they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses,they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore” (Is: 42:22).

For among those who should deliver us:
“Thy first father hath sinned,and thy teachers have transgressed against me./Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse,and Israel to reproaches.” (Is:43:27/8).

20 June 2012 at 07:29  
Blogger non mouse said...


Further still, we see of the transgressors who should help us:
“They lavish gold out of the bag, and weigh silver in the balance, and hire a goldsmith; and he maketh it a god: they fall down, yea, they worship” ... But we are warned, “Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.(Is: 46.6...9)

Isaiah relays hope, though:
"For thus saith the Lord God, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money” (Is: 52.4).

So those communicants have it, who turn to Isaiah! The true gems are not in the euSSR–which creates crises and then seizes power in the name of “peace.” – “There is no peace, saith the Lord, unto the wicked” (Is: 48.22).

20 June 2012 at 07:41  
Blogger non mouse said...

Sorry... I mean "those communicants have it right..."

20 June 2012 at 07:47  
Blogger Edward Spalton said...

Your Grace,

A noble friend told me that the occupants of the bishops' bench in their Lordships' House were "europhiles to a man".

This was not entirely a surprise, having observed the eagerness with which several Right Reverend gentlemen climbed aboard John Prescott's EU-inspired programme for the balkanisation of England, as chairmen
of "Regional Constitutional Conventions" to demonstrate the public's burning desire for "democratic regional government" to "bring government closer to the people" whilst actually exporting the power to Brussels.

I recently attended a splendid Jubilee party where we sang many of the good old songs, including the Vicar of Bray.

Afterwards, I composed this additional verse.

And that had been the custom now,
From that day unto this, Sir.
But now the times are sorely changed
And things have gone amiss, Sir.
For Queen Anne's bounty long is spent -
Of replenishment no more hope.
So a King in Brussels I'll have now
With grants from "Soul for Europe".

And this is the law I will maintain etc..

20 June 2012 at 08:14  
Blogger Little Black Sambo said...

Extraordinary. The C of E management is much keener to stay in touch with EU management than to take account of the views of their own membership - why?

20 June 2012 at 09:58  
Blogger Hugh said...

The day is long gone when the Anglican Church was the "Conservative Party at Prayer". My guess though is that Conservatives still nurture the Church with their monthly Gift Aided Donations, but the Beast now thinks and votes yellow.
Perhaps Your Grace a campaign to stop Conservatives Financing the C of E unless the Bishop's promise to desist from political meddling. What do you think.?

20 June 2012 at 11:07  
Blogger Nick said...

As a "traditionalist bigot", I've always been puzzled how any COfE minister can reconcile gay marriage with their religion. Presumably, these are the kind of minister who see themselves more as a social worker in a frock than a minister of religion. There are many ministers who do not believe in God, let alone the Bible, which is quite clear that homosexuality falls short of what He expects from us.

As a Christian, I, like all the others, have no mandate to persucte anybody. However, is it persecution to say stop a child going out for its own safety, or to prevent someone doing something that offends others? I don't think so, and I suspect it is God himself who looks at supporters of gay marriage and says "not in my name".

20 June 2012 at 15:10  

Post a Comment

<< Home

Newer›  ‹Older