Friday, November 30, 2012

Leveson and liberty

That some in the press behaved disgracefully and recklessly there can be no doubt. That a few behaved illegally with regard to phone hacking or data theft appears most likely. But Lord Justice Leveson appears to be ignorant of the fact that there are already laws covering such abuses of power. Even more bizarre is that the journalists he has in his sights are those who work for the (declining) mainstream press: Blogger and Twitter are not to be covered by his proposed regulation, which leaves the intrepid Guido Fawkes to investigate away (recklessly) with impunity..

His Grace writes a quarterly column for Freedom, the distinguished journal of The Freedom Association. The article below appeared in their most recent edition. In light of Leveson's proposals for statutory regulation of the press (which he insists is not statutory regulation of the press), it seems apposite to reproduce it today, for the moment a free press is placed beneath any 'independent' body - a statutory regulator - we will see, as sure as night follows day, freedom of speech gradually ratcheted away, for a journalist with the threat of prison hanging over him is less likely to be 'robust' in the acquisition of information in pursuit of the truth:

“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties,” wrote John Milton in his Areopagitica – a speech to England’s Parliament in 1644. In a fractious time of political division and religious dissent, he was making a plea for the toleration of diverse views, no matter how offensive those views may be. He grasped that the freedom to speak contrarily is a foundation of our liberty; it is the cornerstone of liberal democracy.

Milton’s worldview was Protestant: his theology was that of the Reformation; his truth pointing towards that of the Enlightenment. Without the freedoms of speech and expression, nothing could be changed: the prevailing orthodoxies – religious, social, moral and political – thereby become infallible doctrines and immutable laws, defined and determined by an elite priestly caste.

The one caveat identified by both Milton and JS Mill as a justifiable limit to free expression was the ‘harm’ factor: nothing should be censored provided that none is injured, and so Parliament legislated over the succeeding centuries not only against bodily harm, but also against the incitement to harm.

But all matters of opinion were to be tolerated for the good of society. Those opinions may be insulting, unfavourable and offensive, but without the toleration of such there can be no freedom of opinion, both on truth and that of utility. In a 1999 court judgment, Lord Justice Sedley reiterated this right, and quoted Socrates and two famous Quakers in doing so. He said: “Free speech includes not only the offensive, but the irritating, the contentious, the eccentric, the heretical, the unwelcome and the provocative, providing it does not tend to provoke violence.” There is no breach of the peace if what is said is merely offensive.

The world has seen too many examples of state control and censorship of unofficial utterances. Society is all the better when the freedom reigns for people to spout their offensive / irritating / contentious / eccentric / heretical / unwelcome / provocative views. The alternative is to be burnt at the stake – literally, in centuries past, or metaphorically in the present. We draw the line at prejudice, irrational discrimination or incitement. Or we used to, before the development of the concept of ‘hate speech’.

Mill expounded the manifest benefits of ‘searching for and discovering the truth’. But what further knowledge may be gleaned if a false opinion may not be challenged, for fear of the hearer being offended and the speaker arrested? How may truth be discerned if error may not be refuted, lest the refutation be deemed ‘hate’? Since most opinions are neither completely true nor completely false, only by a robust exchange in free expression can competing views be aired and partial truths made more whole.

It is profoundly concerning that people are being investigated by the police – even children – for posting jokes in bad taste on their Facebook pages, or sending out impolite Tweets. It is even more concerning that adults are being imprisoned for doing the same, as in the case of Matthew Woods, who posted an offensive joke about April Jones, the little girl who went missing from Machynlleth.

Certainly, missing children are no laughing matter, and Mr Woods has shown himself to be a heartless and unfeeling brute. But imprisoned? Criminalised for failing to empathise with April Jones’ parents? What is this emerging emotional correctness?

It wasn’t so long ago that The Freedom Association was railing against the Royal Mail for illegally withholding millions of letters and parcels while the whole nation mourned the death of Diana, Princess of Wales. The grief was ubiquitous – teddy bears and flowers strewn on spontaneous shrines the length and breadth of the country. Emotional correctness demanded conformity: TFA alone introduced a note of jarring dissonance. But the thought of Norris McWhirter being prosecuted and imprisoned today for being offensive or insensitive is absurd. That Diana died was tragic. That the Royal Mail chose to indulge the nation’s collective grief by suspending its services was inconvenient. But that people might be criminalised for finding the whole circus distasteful, and then turning to Facebook and Twitter to spread their vicious satire, is a fundamental offence against freedom.

If a teenage boy can be cautioned by the police for tweeting about Tom Daley failing to win an Olympic gold medal, or a blogger arrested for criticising his local councillors, do we not effectively have a social media patrolled by the police? If the Malicious Communications Act 2003 can be used to censor ‘bad taste’, why may it not be used to suppress minority political views? If Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 outlaws ‘insulting words or behaviour’, why may it not inhibit all rational discourse on Islam or Mohammed; Mormonism or Scientology?

O, hang on...

Channel 4 recently pulled the plug Tom Holland’s documentary Islam: The Untold Story. Mr Holland received threats and abusive tweets, merely for investigating the history of the religion, and so the spineless C4 decided that this story of Islam will remain untold. Thus, ever so subtly, the airwaves of Britain are being incrementally subject to Shari’a: Islam may not be critically discussed; its history may not be investigated; its precepts may not be debated.

Last year the owner of a café was told by police to stop displaying ‘offensive’ Bible verses. In 2008 a teenage boy was arrested for describing the Church of Scientology as a ‘cult’. He was part of a peaceful demonstration, but the police confiscated his placard, deeming it to constitute an expression of ‘hate’.

We must thank God that we have no Mormon politicians, for next year the West End plays host to The Book of Mormon, a satirical musical from the creators of South Park. Doubtless it will cause much offence and someone will feel insulted, and the entire population of Salt Lake City might threaten to descend upon the theatre to protest. But even if they don’t, we can count on the police to intervene, for the Lord Chamberlain has returned, helmeted, dressed in blue, intent on stifling debate, crushing dissent, and inculcating a sinister and illiberal self-censorship.


Blogger Di said...

And on the near horizon we have the EU, with its ambitions to suppress anti-EU opinions, and to allow only approved political parties. Shuddder!

30 November 2012 at 09:16  
Blogger David B said...

I may have remarked before that it is surprising how often the views of a liberal atheist and a conservative Christian can,on some subjects, be in close sympathy with each other.

This is such an occasion.

I hope I can be granted the indulgence of a little personal aside.

I have just finished the second cycle of aggressive chemotherapy aimed at killing off any cancer cells which may have escaped the operation which left me with a semi-colon.

The CT scan was clear, but there apparently were indications that some cells might have escaped when the removed tissue was closely examined.

The prognosis is, I am told, very good, with the oncologist talking of 'cure' rather than 'remission'.

I am writing a diary of my treatment under the name DavidNB on the colon and rectal cancer forum ar cancer forums, should anyone be interested enough to follow it, which I doubt.

And thanks once again for all the expressions of good will from all those who, regardless of religio/political views, have been kind enough to offer over the recent weeks since I first mentioned this here.

David B

30 November 2012 at 10:22  
Blogger Matt A said...

Not entirely on subject, but closely connected, news today that any attempt to present Biblical creation as fact could lead to new free schools losing their funding. What a wonderful tolerant society we have become.

30 November 2012 at 10:44  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi David B

Glad that you are, bit by bit, getting better!

30 November 2012 at 10:53  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

At a demonstration by the EDL last year, and the opposing "Anti-fascists" gathering - I walked amongst both crowds dressed as Santa, distributing chocolates and carrying a placard that said "Love your enemies" and displaying the four points of the gospel symbols ( The police made me remove my beard (though a large number of equally impressive natural beards were present - predominantly on the anti-EDL side!) and bizarrely confiscated my placard because someone had complained and because it might lead to a disturbance of the peace!!! I absolutely kid you not.

30 November 2012 at 11:26  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Matt A

I did read the link. Unfortunately the article didn't specify which version of creationism that these schools wanted to teach. It is a pity that secularists and religious people have to be so confrontational about these issues.

I see that you are concerned that Biblical creation (actually creations, as Genesis provides 2 accounts of creation) won't be taught as fact in science classrooms.

I would suggest that both scientist and religious scholar do a course on philosophy of science and or the history of science, philosophy and religion. It would help people no end.

I am not sure if we should or actually can put religious text through scientific method.

Scientific Method and consequent theories, often tells us how, perhaps not why, whereas theology,philosophy and religion are always trying to explain the why as much as the how. To me science and faith are both different sides of the same coin.

bereishit bara Elohim.

30 November 2012 at 12:05  
Blogger Irene's Daughter said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

30 November 2012 at 12:12  
Blogger Kinderling said...

The root of terrorizm is cowardice.

Without cowards, "hate-crimes" could not exist.

Fear is how these societies are controlled.

Ask a moderate liberal.

30 November 2012 at 12:13  
Blogger Irene's Daughter said...

Since we have a Parliamentary party system which suppresses freedom of opinion (by which I mean the whip system) it was inevitable that somehow the curtailment of freedom of speech would spread beyond Westminster's corridors.
In the hacking scandal the current law has been shown to work. Once a part of the press realised what was happening and published it the full force of the law slowly but successfully took action.
If the press is curtailed - who will tell us about what is going on out there? Who will report the next 'hacking-like' scandal?

30 November 2012 at 12:14  
Blogger gentlemind said...

I call it "Erecting mechanisms". We are seeing the mechanisms of tyranny being erected one by one. No free press/speech. No natural parental rights. Detention without charge. State ownership of all electronic communications.

30 November 2012 at 12:16  
Blogger John said...

You said: "But Lord Justice Leveson appears to be ignorant of the fact that there are already laws covering such abuses of power."

In fact Leveson wrote a great deal about existing laws and investigations but did not include this in his summary. What he found is that the police did indeed investigate criminal activity but the judiciary treated this activity as a joke and largely gave conditional discharges as sentences.

Millions of pounds and thousands of police man hours were spent trying to bring the criminals to justice and the prosecutions were laughed out of court. The judges even seemed to think that hacking Milly Dowler's phone was of little consequence. See The Leveson Inquiry for an account of Leveson's coverage of the criminal prosecutions.

30 November 2012 at 12:17  
Blogger Matt A said...


Two versions of creation? Not really, two viewpoints, that is all. By your argument there would also be two births of Jesus.
Anyway, my point was really that the proposed forbidden teaching is that God created the world. I take the Biblical accounts literally, I understand that many readers here possibly do not, but the fact that the option to teach about God in this way should be restricted is worrying, no matter what your theology.

30 November 2012 at 12:19  
Blogger Elby the Beserk said...

Your Grace,

Thank you for an excellent article. How we roll back this tide of nastiness, I have no idea; I suppose we start by opposing it in our personal lives. But we are up against huge forces that care not a jot or tittle for personal freedom; the Climate Jihadis, unacountable groups at work in our society such as Common Purpose and Agenda 21 (far more sinister than CP) and supra-national outfits like the EU and the UN (responsible for Agenda 21). If anyone wants to know more about Agenda 21, start with Maurice Strong, whose intent is to crash the industrialised nations.

It seems to me that it may well turn out that my parents' generation, who risked or gave up their lives for our freedom may well have wasted their time; now we are being assaulted from within, with, pace David B who is fighting the good fight against cancer, by a very nasty cancer which is metastasising with terrifying speed.

It seems that the C4 programme on Islam did in fact get broadcast. You can still watch it here

30 November 2012 at 12:45  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
Suppressing freedom of the press means that sooner or later, no one will be able to criticise the Government.

30 November 2012 at 12:59  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Matt A,

Umn, I said 2 accounts of creation, not versions, a slightly different nuance.

Getting back to the article you posted, it isn't clear if the ban on teaching creationism applies only to the science lesson or if it bans the teaching of it full stop.

I would argue that it shouldn't be taught in the science classroom, but should be included in the Religious Studies and philosophy lessons (granted that not many schools have philosophy departments, but hey ho).

If the ban is complete and an absolute one,that effects funding, then I would agree with you that it is wrong to do so.

30 November 2012 at 13:01  
Blogger Corrigan said...

Does this really matter? I mean, it might have been once, when journalists actually contributed something and surpressing them might have affected society, but that was neither today nor yesterday. Now, they're just scumbags. They're no loss to anyone.

30 November 2012 at 13:14  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Rebel Saint..personal freedoms are being eroded daily. If you wish to wear a Santa suit and don a beard it is your legal right to do so. Handing out chocolates is not a crime.You have risen in my estimation for at least attempting to protest against the injustices
that are being heaped on ordinary decent people by demonstrating in a peaceful and humorous way. If 500 men dressed as Santa and stood outside a mosque distributing chocolates to celebrate CHRISTMAS
and good will to all men would that be regarded as an incitement to violence? I suppose if Santas said Ho Ho Ho in unison it could be perceived to be...but if they said Ha Ha Ha that could be
laughing which might also be illegal now. So Rebel Saint, you would have to ensure that everyone was silent and no chortling either because being delightfully silly ( something that used to be a culturally exclusive and enviable English trait) is no longer politically correct. My blood is beginning to boil so I will say no more.

30 November 2012 at 13:17  
Blogger David B said...

If Matt A is to be consistent, then would he not be forced into the position of demanding teachers in faith schools may teach that the tenets of Scientology are literally true, that the Quran is literally true, that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi was inerrant, that the Book of Mormon is literally true, and the list goes on.

For myself, when so many seek to push as literally true so much doctrine that is mutually inconsistent, I rather take the view that none such should be taught as literally true.

Most of them must necessarily be false, and to teach kids that false things are true does not seem like a good use of public funds to me.

David B

30 November 2012 at 13:32  
Blogger Manfarang said...

I don't think you know what the EDL is.Rebel Saint was lucky not to have his head kicked in.

30 November 2012 at 13:39  
Blogger graham wood said...

Gentlemind : "We are seeing the mechanisms of tyranny being erected one by one. No free press/speech. No natural parental rights. Detention without charge. State ownership of all electronic communications."

Absolutely, and we can add State ownership of parental rights over their own children's in education and moral welfare, as schools increasingly indoctrinate them with "gay rights" poison.
In addition State ownership of marriage - Cameron wishes its definition to change for everyone.
In addition potentially under Sec 5 of the Public Order Act, censorship of our views and opinions as being "offensive" and therefore criminal.
This is the most illiberal and sinister government since Blair and Brown, and thats not saying much!

30 November 2012 at 14:04  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

I know what the EDL is.I also know why the EDL was formed Manfarang.
I also know that living in a Moslem country if I publically expressed and denigrated army personnel I would be imprisoned before I was deported.It is a question of manners. If you are a guest in a foreign country you must be sensitive to the traditions ie unless you live in England.

30 November 2012 at 14:20  
Blogger Anglican said...

I have just read a review of a book by an American liberal atheist - "Unlearning Liberty: Campus Censorship and the End of American Debate" by Greg Lukianoff.

In it he says that many American universities now prohibit any non-politically correct words or activities, by students or staff. The American dream of liberty is over. He also says that the most persecuted group are Christians, and he is now standing up for them.

Our UK universities are not likely to lag far behind. There seems to be an insanity virus sweeping the Western world. The ruling political elites, the media & academia seem to be especially susceptible. Is there any known antidote?

30 November 2012 at 15:00  
Blogger Richard Brown said...

If freedom of speech is OK for the English press, why is it wrong on the terraces at West Ham?

30 November 2012 at 15:53  
Blogger John Magee said...

"We must thank God that we have no Mormon politicians, for next year the West End plays host to The Book of Mormon"

Pray that God would atcually give the UK some Mormon politicians. An injection of these decent, hard working, honest people like a Mitt Romney and other examples of Mormon achievers in the USA might just be what the political and moral life in Britain needs today.

I like the Mormons I have met during my life.

The play "The Book of Mormon" which is about two protagonists who begin to question their faith when they are faced with an almost incomprehensible series of unfortunate events. It opened on Broadway, New York City in May of 2011 and there wasn't one single Mormon there to protest. Mormon's didn't protest when the play moved to other cities in the USA either. Why? Because those hard working prosperous Mormons are too busy starting businesses, creating jobs, and dedicated to their families to protest bigots who mock their faith in a free country. They are used to this abuse. They turn the other cheek.

Islam is a different matter as the "Leveson and liberty" article pointed out.

The Book of Mormon was supposedly given to a Christian named Joseph Smith by an "angel" called Moroni. It is a fairy tale but the Torah, Christian Bible, and the Koran are also full of some pretty unbelievable whoppers too. At least to unbelievers.

30 November 2012 at 16:44  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

I see the PC got away with the Monkey remark, on the grounds of evolution

We can have free speech, backed up with creative reasoning

Gevernment may be compared to an Apehouse on evolutionary grounds

30 November 2012 at 17:00  
Blogger Di said...

Slightly off-topic I know, but:-

Labour MP Ben Bradshaw reports urine to be dripping through the ceiling of his office at the Palace of Westminster.

Does anyone else here see this as a prophetic sign?

30 November 2012 at 17:14  
Blogger John Magee said...


Just like the venerable and great universities in England founded by Monks in the Middle Ages have lost their Catholic and Protestant roots and spiritual anchor so have
the great USA Christian universities. Schools here founded by Protestants in the 1600's and 1700's such as Harvard, Yale, and Princeton and many others are secular today and have lost the values of their founders. Georgetown University in Washington founded in the 1700's by English RC's is an example of a great USA Roman Catholic University that sold out to the secularists too.

There are however many fine smaller colleges and universities in the USA which have not lost spiritual roots or their standards. Most of them run by Conservative Protestants and traditional Roman Catholics where liberal left wing worthless courses political correctness does not exist. These schools concentrate on academics, the great classic books and teachings of Western Civilization, and the Bible. Their standards for hiring professors are high and most have small class sizes. They do not allow coed dorms and showers.

Here are a few examples.


Hillsdale College, Hillsdale Michigan

Grove City College (Presbyterian), Grove City, Pennsylvania

Liberty University, Lynchburg, Virginia

Wheaton College, Wheaton, Illinois

Roman Catholic:

St Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, California

Christendom College, Front Royal, Virginia

Franciscan University, Steubenville, Ohio

I listed these colleges from a long list of others to let you know sanity still exists here no matter how much it gets glossed over by the news and pop culture you see every day.

30 November 2012 at 17:23  
Blogger John Magee said...


Let's hope it's from a blocked toilet.

Be thankful he didn't see blood dripping...

30 November 2012 at 17:25  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

An excellent piece of incisive assessment YG - Bravo!
As detestable as the excesses of the the gutter press have become we must not put one foot on the throat of press freedom. Press freedon is also the freedom of the individual and enough has been meekly surrendered to the PC lobbies. People need to accept that we have taken our freedom for granted for far too long.

However the has to be some serious action taken by government to at the very least to start banging heads together of all publishers that standards of propriety, accuracy and truthfullness in journalism need to be raised drastically and rapidly.

Dave should not be hustled in to making open ended knee jerk legislation no matter how raw the emotions exposed or how heinous have been the activities covered by the report.

If a person can be arrested even now, for saying that a police horse is GAY; or that Mohammed was simply class act fraud - there is no telling what perverted application or interpretation of the law in respect of our basic freedoms will be next.

Stand fast DAVE and don't let them give you the bum' rush.

30 November 2012 at 17:36  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Extremely well put Archbishop. The Inspector read the original in Freedom Today, and was waiting for you to throw this to us.

Although one is sure the powers that be would like us all to be, let’s say ‘co-operative’ when it comes to kissing Islamic behind and being actively encouraging of the gay advancement, “to keep the peace” as the dowager used to say, one gives thanks that we can vociferously object in our still free country.

The issue of electronic communications is rather an interesting one. This fellow fully understands that to receive an offensive communication is akin to an assault on the person, but surely the technology is there so that an individual could ban the offender on their contraption. Pink News banned for life the Inspector, not really sure he deserved his fate, after all he was responding to hetrophobes and Christophobes, but it is his all the same. Certainly, the police should not be involved, unless a more serious crime is committed at the same time, harassment or stalking for example.

As for bad taste communications – well what can one say. It takes many years for the male to mature, if he manages it at all, and he can be a public nuisance in all areas until then…

30 November 2012 at 17:37  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...


From the toliet blockage at Canaan...

“He tasted it, and it was good”

30 November 2012 at 17:40  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

In evolutionary terms, one wonders what the amoebas have planned next

30 November 2012 at 18:14  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

Cameron should take this opportunity and the initiative on this matter and further instigate a review of the legitimacy of the so called hate-crime laws and Orwellian thought crimes visited upon us by Labour.
We have enough legislation to cover most eventualities that individuals may at sometime feel aggrieved - what we need is more access to the law.

In (un)civil matters, it seems only the wealthy can sue successfully to the highest court. We need open up access to justice for all individuals, filtered first by something of the order of the small claims courts and by extending the legal aid system to include specific elements civil law, based on the 'injured' party's means tested ability to pay.

30 November 2012 at 18:19  
Blogger Maturecheese said...

Elby the Beserk

Is not the horrendous Energy Bill published yesterday, though you wouldn't know it judging by the lack of media coverage, heavily influenced by Agenda 21.

30 November 2012 at 18:30  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Although there is a split in Government over the matter, it would seem to be along the evolutionary lines that cells divide, before they conquer

30 November 2012 at 18:42  
Blogger Preacher said...

Excellent article Dr Cranmer.
Very appropriate with the Lords vote on the reform of section 5 of the public order act on the horizon.
We cannot just stand back & let free speech & freedom of the press be subject to judicial suppression. If it wasn't for the press, many real criminals whose positions of power make them almost untouchable would still be stealing from the public at an alarming rate.
We would all agree that the press must get its house in order, but recent & past events have proved that legislation already exists to punish any publication that reports malicious lies or acts in a manner contrary to the law as it stands.
The loss of free speech is too high a price to pay for past irregularities.

30 November 2012 at 19:23  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

I say fellows, it’s barely above freezing in the unheated rooms in Inspector Towers.

So for your delectation and unlikely enjoyment...

Now the winter comes down
I can't stand the chill
That comes to the streets around Christmas time
And I'm buggered to damnation
And I haven't got a penny
To wander the dark streets of London

And as a result...

Every time that I look on the first day of summer
Takes me back to the place where they gave me ECT

(The Pogues – Dark Streets of London)

Merry first day of winter in 4 hours, all. Low ebbs and all that...


30 November 2012 at 19:58  
Blogger David Lindsay said...

Milton, about whom I happen to know rather a lot, was a leading figure in the only true tyranny in English, never mind Irish, history.

Leveson will be enacted with the support of 70 or more MPs worthy to be called Tories, since they believe in national identity, in the sovereignty of Parliament, and in the use of State power against attacks on our Biblical-Classical civilisation (bringing us back to Milton, in fact). As Leveson himself puts it, he can see no difference between day-to-day British newspaper material and that which is marketed openly as pornography.

"Free" press? What "free" press? Gathered together in their huddle deciding what the line should be, and then all sticking to it. A line which always includes "competition" for everyone else, but cartel for them. If it's not politically fixed cartel-mongers pushing the "free" market on everyone else, then it's hired help of transnational foreign powers posing as champions of national sovereignty and of all things distinctively British, and it's the glorified bouncers of glorified pimps claiming to defend family values.

They have had this coming for a very long time. It is comical to watch their hysteria as they realise that the only politician who is still frightened of them is riding one of their horses. Next up, the City. No more states within this State. Or do you not believe in the sovereignty of Parliament?

30 November 2012 at 20:31  
Blogger John Magee said...


December 2 is the first Sunday in Advent. Do you have your pine or holly wreath with four candle's sitting on your dining room table ready to light each Sunday?

30 November 2012 at 20:55  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

John, old fellow, the Inspector is a bachelor living alone. But if he did have a family the requisites would be there for all to see.

30 November 2012 at 20:59  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

David Lindsay, if Leveson can’t see any difference between pornography and what the British newspaper industry produces then he is actually right. However, there needs to be a clear distinction between the daily comics sold and real investigative journalism. A good distinction is whether the paper is tabloid or long sheet. The former being the subject of stringent rules on what ‘gossip’ is permissible to be published, the latter exempt...

30 November 2012 at 21:11  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

30 November 2012 at 22:26  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

I know where His Grace and David Milton are coming from with the Milton

Did he deplore licence as opposed to freedom, back in the day, not to be licenced would get one accused of witchcraft, of having been taught in a hedgeschool, of all things

Hedgeschooling may be the way back to real learning, compared to state indoctrination

As the inspector says, from the frozen wasteland, where is the true investigative reporting

30 November 2012 at 22:40  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

David Lyndsey, sorry, damn Irish Cream night again

Best behaviour though, promise!

30 November 2012 at 22:41  
Blogger Di said...

At root we are debating "Who guards the guardians?" We all have God-given consciences to tell us right from wrong. In a conscience-driven world a body of elders such as the pcc would deter potential offenders with a frown.

But in the real world of today no-one can trust a bunch of time-served journalists to give ethical guidance to their profession,and no-one can trust MPs to give ethical guidance on anything.

For many (most?) people in public life their consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. Unethical behaviour is not only the means by which the successful have succeeded, but also how power should be exercised by the next generation according to the training mantras of Common Purpose.

"A fish rots from its head" - Our society is rotting from the head of every one of its parts - politics, banking, business, the church, public services, the royals.

Thank God I am not God, or I would have judged this nation long ago. However He is patient with us, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance.

30 November 2012 at 23:06  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...


You have made some very good comments today, are you aware that in the puranic lore of holy water places, it is said some chose to be gaurds, why others chose to be goblins

So in a sense, it may be worth asking when did the gaurds stop gaurding against the goblins

But such mischeif is only pagan superstition and must be conveniently ignored

30 November 2012 at 23:16  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

1 December 2012 at 05:33  
Blogger John Magee said...


A sprig of holly or pine behind a picture on the wall or on the mantelpiece along with a holy card of the Nativity will suffice to honor our Lord's birth during Advent.

Are you able to go to Mass Christmas Eve at Prinknash Abbey?

I wish I could hear the choir at Glouscester Cathedral on Christmas Eve or Christmas day...

1 December 2012 at 07:07  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

1 December 2012 at 09:47  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

"Free" press? What "free" press?

Focusing exclusively on the mainstream print media is incredibly short sighted. It would be naive in the extreme to think that before too long it would not be extend to include any form of publication professional or amateur.

A free press that has been part of our civil rights of the past 300 years, to publish caricature praise, condemn, lampoon, laud, views and opinions that may offend but do so within the constraints of the law without the interference of of monarchs or men

1 December 2012 at 09:48  
Blogger len said...

Freedom of the Press?.

Can the 'ends'ever justify the' means'?.

If the motive is merely financial(to sell more papers) then it is questionable.

But if the motives are to discover the truth of a situation then perhaps 'the means' may be questionable but the motive honourable.

The 'free Press' are an integral part of a Democracy and any attempt to regulate or control the freedom of the Press will shut down much investigative journalism to the detriment of our Society as a whole.
We already have enough restrictions on free speech( as have been pointed out) and if more restrictions are added it will not be long before the Orwellian nightmare(1984) becomes a reality.

1 December 2012 at 11:14  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

John. You probably can hear the choristers of Gloucester and on line. CDs exist. Unable to get to the Abbey on Christmas eve, a matter of transport you see.

1 December 2012 at 11:48  
Blogger Rebel Saint said...

@Manfarang I did feel a little bit scared walking amongst both groups of people (there's actually a lot of mindless thugs on both sides). But I soon realised that laughter & generosity have a great disarming affect - you have to be pretty heartless to kick Santa's head in when he's offering you chocolates and a gospel tract!!

The only humourless ones were the idiotic police officers who said they had to take my placard away because there had been a complaint about it. When he asked my name & address it was amusing to see him write down Mr S Clause before he realised I was extracting the urine!

1 December 2012 at 12:10  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Saint. you have to be pretty heartless to kick Santa's head in when he's offering you chocolates and a gospel tract!!

Bless you, but one rather thinks you don’t fully understand the savagery these ‘anti fascist’ bastards are capable of...

1 December 2012 at 12:22  
Blogger Lord AnonymousInBelfast said...

Rebel Saint:

You are a bloomin' genius.

1 December 2012 at 12:54  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

1 December 2012 at 13:41  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

len said ...

"But if the motives are to discover the truth of a situation then perhaps 'the means' may be questionable but the motive honourable."

Just stopping short of 'the ends justify the means'.

This way of thinking leads to hedonistic utilitarianism and is the paradigmatic example of consequentialist moral thinking. It has infested modern thinking and many churches.

1 December 2012 at 13:43  
Blogger len said...

Have you swallowed a dictionary Dodo?.

1 December 2012 at 15:23  
Blogger len said...

Dodo I will give you an example 'Bletchley Park' was a 'listening post' to all German Broadcasts during the war troop movements etc.

You would have disaproved of that?

1 December 2012 at 15:30  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

It's from the Wikipedia entry for consequentialism. Copy&Paste Catholics.

1 December 2012 at 15:34  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Lord Belfast should join Rebel Saint in his next Santa expedition for Peace,sans cigar and monocle.

Dodo and len should join them. Picture the four Santas weaving their way amongst the EDL and the Islamites distributing the gospels and chocolate. The Inspector could go as Tarzan as a decoy to distract the police. Len could distribute his how to hate Catholic
pamphlets as well.

1 December 2012 at 16:06  
Blogger Lord AnonymousInBelfast said...

I'm pulling my santa outfit on as I type!

1 December 2012 at 16:48  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Ya know, during the Iraq War, the US military demonstrated how to effectively manage journalists. Told them what they could do, and where they could go. Reviewed what they wrote. Once a day, the Public Affairs Officers would take the journalists out for a walk so the journalists could relieve themselves. It was all very satisfying. "Heel, Walter! Sit!" It still makes me smile.

Yes, I know. It can't work that way in the real world. (Could it?) In the real world, the best guardian of the press is an ideologically hostile alternate press. The current problem with the MSM is ideological uniformity.

who isn't overly fond of journalists

1 December 2012 at 18:04  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Don't be ridulous!

Was Blechleys Park the Sun Newspaper. Dumbar*se. Look the terms up.

Gold Lame Hotpants Man (AKA DanJ0)
Well, well.

Back from mounting foreign hills, are we? Thought we'd heard the last you after your recent tantrum and foot stamping: "That's it, I'm done here."

Of course you're the best example on here of hedonistic utilitarianism and consequentialist moral thinking. A number of bloggers - Albert, Carl and Belfast - have taken you apart on this and demonstrated the hollowness of your *opinions*.

1 December 2012 at 18:07  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...


I could never go within 1000 yards of len - unless he was in a donkey outfit. (No, not the prophetic one mentioned in the bible).

I do like the general idea. DanJ0 would be a better Tarzan wearing his Gold Lame Hotpants. How about you and Hannah being kitted out as Santa's Little Helpers too?

1 December 2012 at 18:15  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Ah yes, DanJ0’s back. How were the test results old son ? You really ought to be more careful whom you let ‘in’ so to speak. One thinks you will be in future, for a time, anyway...

1 December 2012 at 18:17  
Blogger Mr. Mcgranor said...

Out of all the West -- including elsewhere then Europe -- you'll only find America standing in liberty. The socialism that was institutionalized among the rest of the Western hemisphere; had been retarded by a once distinct American character. That has since vanished in decline since the 90's; as far as representation. Still those in the U.S. that keep a certain tradition are not altogether out-of-place as in Europe, Australia, Canada and all that.

1 December 2012 at 18:42  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

1 December 2012 at 19:13  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo: "Of course you're the best example on here of hedonistic utilitarianism and consequentialist moral thinking."

I hope you've donated some money to Wikipedia, your being such a Google Savant. If £30 is apparently average, you and the Merkin ought to be throwing rather more their way to be fair.

1 December 2012 at 19:19  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Don't swear.

1 December 2012 at 19:21  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Anyway, welcome back DanJ0, old fruit. What is Cranmer without it’s (...more than...) fair share of male homosexual angst...

1 December 2012 at 19:34  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Naughty, naughty, Gold Lame Hotpants Man!

Have you considered a Gold Lame mini-skirt for the festive season? Oh, sorry, forgot. You are still in the 'closet' at work and with your social circle.

1 December 2012 at 19:35  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector: "What is Cranmer without it’s (...more than...) fair share of male homosexual angst..."

You provide enough of that on your own, to be fair. Are you going to give yourself the ultimate Xmas present this year and declare your homosexual orientation to your fellows at the Gerbil and Tube? They might even accept you despite all the stuff you've been saying there as cover over the years. If they don't then there's always the Other Place on the high street you walk past back and forth on Saturday afternoons before coming on here in the evening to relieve yourself of your subsequent self-hate.

1 December 2012 at 19:45  
Blogger Lord AnonymousInBelfast said...

Thought I'd just share my Bible verse for the day:

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. (Philippians 4:8)

1 December 2012 at 19:50  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Right, that's enough 'catnip' for tonight. They'll be climbing the curtains if I hang around any more, bless 'em.

1 December 2012 at 19:50  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Good show DanJ0 !

Your aggressive spirit suggests you came out negative...

Saints be praised !

1 December 2012 at 20:05  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

1 December 2012 at 21:06  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

1 December 2012 at 21:18  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Ah, one can see the barely concealed glee there. You know, it's very common to see that from Christians online, especially under newspaper stories like that one. Really, Christianity in practice is actually quite evil when you look closely. There's a deep-seated unpleasant there, especially in its Roman Catholic instantiation. Normal people need to look past the PR and see what it actually brings out in its adherents.

1 December 2012 at 21:33  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Ah, Mr Magoo has decided to delete it.

1 December 2012 at 21:34  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

For the record, it was about the Uganda anti-homosexuality bill and about the death penalty which was in it.

Followed by a cheery Christian "Merry Christimas". Lovely.

1 December 2012 at 21:43  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

DanJ0, Christianity in practice is actually quite evil when you look closely

This is the attitude what we find, queer fella, on Pink News. You see, all you Christians who view this blog, we can NEVER come to terms with the gay men. They love their anal sex too much, and roar at institutions that criticise them.

By the way, today is world gay disease day, or something like it...

1 December 2012 at 21:56  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Perhaps Mr Magoo suddenly thought about the Christians losing their lives in Egypt when he posted in that style about the potential difficulties for us there too. Perhaps he thought what could be written by non-religious people of his mindset when the blog owner writes articles about Iranian pastors under threat of death for being a Christian of sorts. Or perhaps, and more likely I reckon, he thought that it isn't very good PR for a Roman Catholic like him to be speaking his mind so freely.

1 December 2012 at 22:02  
Blogger len said...

I tend to agree with you Danjo,(1 December 2012 21:33)

The Catholics seem to roam around this site' beating up' on anyone they disagree with or has the timerity to question their dubious religion.In fact if any[or all]of them were arrested for being 'Christian'then the case would have to be dropped for lack of evidence. .Christianity isn`t in it at all.

The ganged up on Ernst on another thread hurling insults and abuse at this (by his own admission) elderly gentleman.

Then 'cruella de ville'has the cheek to accuse me of' hate speech' against this mob(sorry Catholics posing as Christians)
I speak out against the' religious system' not the people (if only they responded in the same spirit)
All I can say is that 'the second worst' example of 'religion' is exemplified by this group.All this proves that Catholicism cannot change anyone in fact it makes them considerably worse than most secular people.

1 December 2012 at 22:05  
Blogger John Magee said...


Please quote me accurately.

First of all you neglected to mention I welcomed you back.

In that deleted post all I did was mention the anti Gay law soon to be passed in Uganda. You make it seem like I agreed with it which I never said. All I did say was I don't advise you and your Gay friends taking a sex vacation there anytine soon and that the propects for gay "marriage" ever being made legal in Uganda seem pretty dim. Is there anything that I posted which can be called a lie? No.

Also. I posted "Merry Xmas" and not "Merry Christmas".

Enjoy the Advent Season.

1 December 2012 at 22:15  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Why did you delete it, Magoo?

1 December 2012 at 22:19  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

"Please quote me accurately."

Quote from what? You'd already deleted the thing by then, you numpty.

1 December 2012 at 22:25  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Len. The Inspector burst into tears when he read your post of 22:05

He is upset you are so hurt – you damned fraud !

1 December 2012 at 22:33  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...


I was wondering how long it would take you to cuddle-up to your atheist *buddy*. Interesting relationship there, me thinks. An opportunity to piggy-back (so to speak) your hatred of Catholicism.

I have this image of you as a Rigsby type in Rising Damp.

"Myyyyyyyyyyy God DanJo! I have no intention of giving way to it, extinguish your stick!"

As for Ernsty, he knows the difference between malice and sarcasm. Sadly, you're too dense. He is very dear to me and to Cressida if only you had the wits to see this.

"I speak out against the' religious system' not the people (if only they responded in the same spirit)"


1 December 2012 at 22:37  
Blogger len said...

Touching of you to let me know that you actually have feelings(of a sort)

Perhaps there is hope for you yet?

The only person who is totally free in this World is someone who does not 'take offence'... insults hurled at them simply bounce off .There is a[Universal] law of' sowing and reaping' (even the secular World knows this 'what goes around comes around').Jesus spoke of this on 'The Sermon on the Mount'.

So although I bear no animosity towards any particular person I will endeavour to speak the truth wherever possible(God willing)

1 December 2012 at 22:47  
Blogger Di said...

In view of recent comments above it seems hard to believe that this is a Christian board. Please allow me to return to some very basic basics:-

The Christian faith is the most inclusive faith in the world! For we know that ....

"... all have sinned and fall short of the glory of G-d, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus".

Christians of all denomimations are commanded to love the sinner while hating the sin (including their own). If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Militant homosexuals voicing their anger at the church should see that their grievance is with the Almighty Himself, and not with their fellow-sinners who became God's forgiven children through repentance, meekly acknowledging their helpless condition and their need of a Saviour.

In this period of grace God's forgiveness and acceptance remain available to everyone, no matter how grievous their sin. I would implore Danjo and other God-haters here, to seize this offer while it is still open, for today is the day of the Lord's favour.

1 December 2012 at 22:53  
Blogger Brian West said...

Well said, Di.

Being a very reasonable and conciliatory person (as well as having very definite beliefs) I often wonder how I can intervene in these exchanges to try to calm you all down. But since Lord AIB's admirable post at 19:50 failed to do so, I really don't see how I can help. Perhaps I will limit myself to reading his grace's posts only for a few weeks and leaving you lot to it.

1 December 2012 at 23:01  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

There you go DanJ0, Di reminds us that even a wretch like you can still be saved if you submit yourself to the will of God. To wit, forsaking buggery and CS.

Len. You are not Jesus. Stop judging us...

1 December 2012 at 23:04  
Blogger len said...

It grieves me to say that I have seen more love in secular people than in 'the religious'.
Jesus was know(and rebuked by the religious) for his love for 'sinners'.Jesus did not come to condemn the World but to save the World.
I have met 'gay' people who have more love for humanity in them than any Catholic has displayed on this blog.

We are on a 'level playing field' down here and I would assume that God hates religious Hipocrites (He did then and God doesn`t change)as much now as He did then.
I can predict what the next insult will be from you but I am really past caring as your opinion on anything is pretty much worthless to me.

1 December 2012 at 23:06  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Dodo,

Unfortunately, red isn't my colour and I have no wish to walk among a crowd of EDL supporters or whatever. Although I understand that the traditional santa's costume was a different colour and changed because of a corporate marketing decision?

1 December 2012 at 23:06  
Blogger John Magee said...


Excuse me. I've admitted here many times that Catholics have been far from perfect in the past. Read an unbiased history of Europe since the Reformation and you will discover Protestants have burned and killed, in various ways, their share of "heretics" and witches too. They also have their portion of guilt when supporting dictators like Hitler which the Lutherans did in Nazi Germany. Get off your sanctamonious high horse and read history before you start pointing the finger of sin and hypocrisy at Catholics or anyone else.

1 December 2012 at 23:15  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Di: "I would implore Danjo and other God-haters here, to seize this offer while it is still open, for today is the day of the Lord's favour."

I don't hate god. It's a nonsense to say that to an atheist, we don't think it exists so there's nothing to hate. Voicing anger at the church is not something that can be realistically displaced onto a god hypothesis either. I hold people responsible for their own actions in the real world, whatever the ideology, and rank hypocrisy gets special attention. If militant religionists want to promote their ideologies then fair enough but the rest of us are free to judge them on their words and deeds and ideology, Islamist, Roman Catholic, or whatever.

1 December 2012 at 23:30  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I could say: proclaim the shahada while there's still time and maybe Allah will be merciful but it would presumably have the same effect here as your woo stuff has on me, Di.

1 December 2012 at 23:32  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

The press don't need anymore regulating. What I think needs to happen is stronger enforcement of the existing regulations on how the press get hold of information. (investigative journalism exempt as they work with the police)

I feel the press goes too far in attempting to obtain the dirt on people from bugging their homes with cameras and listening devices, and other covert observations and activity normally reserved for the law, that is violating someone’s personal privacy and is so objectionable.

Now that increasing amounts of people are putting their lives on social networking sites, journalists need to work more on searching these sites for the gossip and titbits they seem to require for attention grabbing stories.

1 December 2012 at 23:41  
Blogger John Magee said...

Dan JO

If you are going to judge Christians, especially Roman Catholic ones, please post examples of Christians recently, if ever, having women stoned to death for adultery or Gays being killed by order of a church based on anything Jesus said about Gays. He never mentioned homosexuality in the Gospels. Any animosity against Gays Christians may have comes from the OT.

Yes, the Church did burn witches at the stake, kill heretics, and fought religious wars but that was in the past and does not dominate Church history or continue.

Every Friday in Mecca, the most holy city in Islam, women are stoned to death for adultery and often Gays are publicly executed too.

I've never read about these sort of atrocities happening in St Peter's Square at the Vatican but a Pope was shot there on May 13, 1981 by a Turkish Muslim.

Maybe you should take the time to visit a hospice where Mother Theresa's nuns take loving care of men (and in Africa both sexes) dying from AIDS to gain a deeper perspective of what Christians are really all about.

1 December 2012 at 23:59  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector, have you forsaken sex so far given that you're in your 50s and never married? You would have until you were married if you really believe in the Roman Catholic god but, of course, you don't really believe all the nonsense at all. You're just a cultural Roman Catholic in the real world, vaguely playing the part to have an identity of sorts. In your case, as with lots of others, it gives you permission to be homophobic and to blame it on 'god' instead. I think most non-religious people recognise that sort of thing which is why the religious in general, have a reputation for bigotry.

2 December 2012 at 00:02  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Magoo, why did you delete your comment back there?

2 December 2012 at 00:04  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

DanJ0 at 00:02

Rather a nosey bastard, aren’t you ?

As for ‘homophobic’, that’s a rather good term for any man who doesn’t want another man ‘in’ them.

That will be be nearly all men then, odd boy....

2 December 2012 at 00:15  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Santa's 'Little Helpers' are elfs, tradionally dressed in green.

len said ...
"God hates religious Hipocrites (sic)..."


"I have met 'gay' people who have more love for humanity in them than any Catholic has displayed on this blog."

That includes Old Jim and Albert, does it?

According to your 'theology' they are eternally damned unless *born again* and overcome the flesh. True?

The Catholic view is much more compassionate and understanding.

Your preoccupation with the Inspector's sex life is really just more 'forum chess'.

Mr Magee said ...
"Any animosity against Gays Christians may have comes from the OT."

Are we back to your dissociation between the Jewish OT and the Christian NT?

Any animosity is towards the acts, not the person.

2 December 2012 at 00:31  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2 December 2012 at 00:51  
Blogger John Magee said...


I never tried to disconnect the NT from the OT. They have two different messages with common links both human, written, and spiritual with a belief in the same God.

Two entirely different religions with a great deal in common.

An example of this type of situation today would be Britain and the USA. Two completely different countries with the new country, the USA, sharing it's mother countrie's basic values,founded by men who were citizens of Britain, a similar legal system, with a large % of it's ethnic population of British stock, and the same language (or should I say the same basic language?). One is a Republic with a written constitution,the other an ancient monarchy, now a constitutional monarchy, with an unwritten constitution yet has documents such as Magna Carta (1215, the Bill of Rights (1689), and the Reform Act (1832) that define your freedoms.

Two different countries with similar links both human and written and I think sharing the same spiritual values too.

2 December 2012 at 02:06  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Mr Magee said ...

"Two entirely different relIgions with a great deal in common ... An example of this type of situation today would be Britain and the USA ... Two different countries with similar links both human and written and I think sharing the same spiritual values too."

I wouldn't describe the relationship between Judaism and Christianity quite like this. Jesus Christ fulfilled the Torah and offered another relationship with His Father. Christians have been grafted into the promise to the Jews.

Your subtext is the Torah somehow less than humane and not written by God but men. It remains the Word of God but has been superceeded.

2 December 2012 at 02:37  
Blogger John Magee said...


Once again you but words into my mouth I never said and you try to imagine stuff I do not think. Why do you do this?

When I said the OT and NT have two different messages yet are connected by common links: human, written, and spiritual how does that in any way deny what you posted above? I am agreeing with you.

Proof of the two different messages in the OT & NT are Christians believing the prophecy of the Messiah was fulfilled by Jesus while Jews are still waiting for the their Messiah. What is wrong with saying this? This is why synagogues and churches exist.

When I see bumper stickers on cars driven by Orthodox Jews that say "We want Moshiach Now!". What are they saying? I think it means they want the Messiah now. Is that correct AVI?

Are you going to somehow twist what I said into some sort of antiSemitic accusation which was never intended and doesn't exist.

Sometimes Dodo you are very tiresome. But I love you for your enormous enthusiasm, deep faith, and intelligence.

Pax Vobiscum

2 December 2012 at 03:58  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector, I don't care a hoot in reality whether you are humping men, women, or your hand. I simply ask you that because it highlights your hypocrisy wonderfully when, as above, you say that I should forsake a sex life for your religious reasons. If you and your ilk don't take your religion seriously then why should I or anyone else take it, or you, seriously?

2 December 2012 at 05:26  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Magoo, why did you delete your comment?

2 December 2012 at 05:27  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Mr Magee

Just trying to keep your views on Judaism, Jews and the Old Testament orthodox, tis all.

And a word of advice, if I might. Ignore the troll DanJ0. He's always on the prowl for some indiscretion or personal information he can use. His technique is to try to push you into saying something which he stores (literally on his computer) and then drags up constantly.

He has in the past admitted being a "social engineer" who plays games on here. "Forum Chess" he calls it. He loves it when Christians attack him and presents this as evidence of homophobia when really it is nothing of the sort.

2 December 2012 at 10:20  
Blogger len said...

Dodo( 2 December 2012 00:31)
It is God`s view that concerns me not the Catholic (or any other denominations) view.

'Albert'was interesting to talk to and to get his views on religion which he expounded masterfully although I disagreed with his interpretation of Scripture which had a strong bias towards Catholic doctrines which render one unable to read the bible without prejudice.

'Old Jim'seems to' keep his cool'whilst continuing' a discussion' which I find quite refreshing.

Being' born again' is 'not my theology' but a command from God

"You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'"

(John 3:7)

2 December 2012 at 10:34  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2 December 2012 at 10:34  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Perhaps you should follow your own advice, Dodo. You probably creamed your big, baggy, old-man Y fronts yesterday when I posted.

You must have been really bored having to cause trouble again with a bunch of protestants and evangelicals in the interim. All that Googling too, it must have been exhausting for you.

2 December 2012 at 10:36  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I think it's pretty obvious why Mr Magoo deleted his comment and why he's now studiously trying to ignore the question each time. I don't know why you try to come to the rescue of these people, Dodo. It never helps them, you just make it worse. It draws attention to their really, really needing a bailout.

2 December 2012 at 10:41  
Blogger len said...

I think Dodo sees himself as a 'defender of the faith'.

Perhaps a secret desire to be a Jesuit.. a sort of 'secret agent' for the Vatican.Picture a dark street a flickering shadow on the wall dressed in a long black cloak trusty dagger firmly grasped in his hand(and thumbscrews in his pocket) His familiar cruella following in his footsteps keeping a sharp eye out for 'proddies'she can flail (within an inch of their lives) with her crudely constructed verses.

Eventually they meet up with' the inspector'(they find him' hanging around in bars'and continue on their mission to seek and destroy any opposition to their 'chosen one'namely 'the Ratzinger'.

2 December 2012 at 10:51  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

I very much doubt Dodo is a church-attending Roman Catholic anyway, I think he came here to troll like he did on Pink News and has 'grown into' his Roman Catholicism persona here. It's obvious even now that he pores over the online Catechism during religious spats then tries to sound knowledgeable and much more religious than he actually is. It's even clearer when you look at his underlying moral character which, even online, is very hard for someone to hide over time. The weirdest thing is when he's been at his worst here and someone slips in some cod-Latin platitude or some other sort of ritualistic religious interplay. Suddenly he switches into some smarmy Christian version of the Muslim as-salaamu 'alaykum / wa alaikum assalam pair. It's part amusing and part nauseating.

2 December 2012 at 11:33  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...


What a grubby little troll you really are with a mind like a cesspit. And so ego-centric too.


Enjoy your relationship with your *buddy*. How you must have missed him. You do know he's attracted to older men?

Perhaps you should be more honest with him about scripture (as you understand it) and the fate you believe awaits the unborn again and unrepentant homosexual. Surely its your Christian duty?

And do stop all the self-righteous pretence of being a God inspired evangelist to Catholics who holds no animosity towards anyone. Your recent posts show this to be a lie.

2 December 2012 at 13:06  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Just for you DanJ0.

Let's call it an early Christmas present for you to drool over in the cold, lonely hours in your mortgage one free-bedroomed flat.

Mwah x

2 December 2012 at 13:19  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

That's mortgage free, one-bedroomed flat.

Do you still have the 'Take That' poster above your bed - or was it 'Wham'?

2 December 2012 at 13:21  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo, I'm not at all lonely as I have the best of both worlds as far as I am concerned: personal space and a long-term partner. I wonder whether you are though. Are you still even married and living together? You often spend your very late evenings, and even last Christmas Eve of all nights, writing your special stuff on here. What must your wife think? Or is she actually relieved, as I expect some wives are, to be free of the clumsy pawing and very happy to see you typing away on the 'Net when most straight couples are in bed together? ;)

2 December 2012 at 13:34  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

And yet one more thread is shot to hell by this continuing Saga of "DanJ0 vs The Two Musketeers." Meaningless point scoring among vulgar references to sodomy and its attendant disease, and hot pants, and 'forum chess' and who lives in what kind of house, and why some people aren't married, and what was said on some other thread last year. It's beginning to cover this weblog like Kudzu.


2 December 2012 at 14:59  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...


Yes, you're quite right.

My pre-New Year resolution - starting from midnight tonight:

To desist engaging with Gold Lame Hotpants Man and to ignore both him and the self-proclaimed evangelist to *lost* Catholics.

(However, I reserve the right to comment on matters of substance. In particular, any misrepresentations of my faith and the preaching of atheism and hedonism)

2 December 2012 at 15:19  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

There are three musketeers now as they found another racist, homophobic Catholic to join them.

2 December 2012 at 15:20  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...


Ummm ... a *long-term partner*, indeed. You'll need to define the terms.

As for me, I remain very happily married (33 years) thank you for asking. My wife and I are not regimented when it comes to intimacy and, as I've pointed out before, there are 24 hours in a day.

Whilst I'm at the self disclosure bit, I should point out I wear Calvin Klein boxer shorts and nightwear T-shirts, all chosen by my dear wife (sizes 36 inch waist and 44 inch chest, respectively, in case you're interested). Oh, and I'm 6' 2" tall and weigh 14 stone. Rather dashing actually - think Sean Connery in 'The Untouchables'.

"Don't cha wish your boyfriend was hot like me
Don't cha wish your boyfriend was a freak like me
Dont cha, dont cha
Dont cha wish your boyfriend was raw like me
Dont cha wish your boyfriend was fun like me
Dont cha, dont cha"

Mwah x

2 December 2012 at 15:41  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Will no one rid the Archbishop of this troublesome queen ?

Que, four knights...

2 December 2012 at 15:41  
Blogger John Magee said...


Thank you for the advice on both counts.

I believe the proper etiquette when dealing with a vicious and hysterical bar queen holding court is to be silent.

silentium aureum

2 December 2012 at 16:00  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Your wife's a lucky woman Dodo.

2 December 2012 at 16:03  
Blogger John Magee said...


I never had any sympathy for Henry II for what suggested in a rage be done to Archbishop Thomas Becket in Canterbury Cathedral.

Maybe Henry VIII would be a better example with all the problems he had dealing with queens...

2 December 2012 at 16:11  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Blimey, the Holy Spirit (Catholic version) is certainly wafting about now by the look of it. What's it to be for you lot later, donning some virtual KKK-like outfits to bash some niggers and queers and, in Magoo's case, some kikes?

2 December 2012 at 16:19  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

I met a gin soaked, bar-room queen in Cranmer
She tried to take me upstairs for a ride.
She had to heave me right across her shoulder
Cause I just can't seem to drink her off my mind.

2 December 2012 at 16:30  
Blogger John Magee said...

A real plus for this blog would be the "ignore" button...

2 December 2012 at 16:34  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Magoo, you simply don't read it or comment on it in order to ignore stuff. I manage quite happily to step over your Google-created historical monologues these days. It's your homophobic stuff that I choose not to ignore, like your unchristian glee over the potential death penalty for homosexuals in Uganda and the Middle East. That deserved a comment.

2 December 2012 at 16:41  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2 December 2012 at 16:59  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Magoo, there's a little checkbox underneath the comments box which, when ticked before posting a comment, emails the subsequent comments on the thread as they're posted. You can post and then delete all you like but it's not a record-free activity. :)

2 December 2012 at 17:05  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Merry Xmas etc.

2 December 2012 at 17:07  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

For gods sake - why don't you homophobic so-called Christians take you invective bile to the gay threads and ply your rotten trade there or is it that you fear feeling painfully inadequate on your own.
You could of course adopt the modus operadi of the one who amongst other names goes as DoDo - you are always guaranteed then of your own support.

You make me sick.

2 December 2012 at 17:09  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

> said...
"Your wife's a lucky woman Dodo"

Why thank you but, in truth, I'm the lucky one.

2 December 2012 at 17:25  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

The above was for Marie

2 December 2012 at 17:31  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Sounds like you've got the perfect marriage Dodo, made in heaven.

2 December 2012 at 17:47  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Inspector said...
"Will no one rid the Archbishop of this troublesome queen?"

Remember the refrain from t'other site?

"Don't feed the troll"

His post @ 16:19 sums him up. And he's now goading John Magee who, hopefully, will ignore him too.

So when did you start believing in God?

Oh, you don't.

Just an expression like much of your sham *image* of an aging rocker, moored 'Up North' on a canal, strumming his guitar, smoking and drinking shorts!

2 December 2012 at 17:47  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Seems to be complaint about responding to certain annoying liberal attention seekers who inhabit the right wing Christian site Cranmer. Never mind...

One learnt something from Pink News lately as they celebrated disease day. If you are gay and unlucky enough to let it slip to the gay community, you are ostracised. Truly ! They are particularly brutal over it and one fellow had to leave Brighton due to it. So much for solidarity in the face of adversity and criticism. Of course, it also rubbishes that communities’ insistence they ‘take precautions’ these days. That turns out to be utter bullshit...

Come on DanJ0 love, a comment from you on this issue ?

2 December 2012 at 17:58  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

let slip you are HIV+ that is...

2 December 2012 at 17:59  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...


I was actually excommunicateed for illicitly marrying an unbaptised woman in her local Anglican Church back in 1979 (an old and beautiful Saxon one in Essex)!

It required the Bishop's permission for us to (re)marry in 1989 in a Catholic Church given the circumstances. My daughter was the Bridesmaid and my two sons the Best Men. A wonderful day and it means we have two anniversaries each year.

I do thank God for bringing us together and blessing and protecting our union and family.

2 December 2012 at 18:00  
Blogger John Magee said...

Yes,I plead guilty to posting "boring" monologues about history. Simple minds hate history. Of course I use Google to back up what I say so a few fools can't call me a liar.

Any writer of nonfiction does the same. That is why books have footnotes at the bottom of a page and source notes at the back of the book. I think I have a good general knowledge of history. I can remember events or names but I do not have total recall so I do research.

I post my comments if the subject of Islam. Communism, or National Socialism comes up here as a warning from the past of what will happen today and in the future if we ignore the mistakes our ancestors made in the past. I don't deal in fantasies and wishful thinking about the world. It is a dangerous and deadly place and always will be. For those liberals and Gays with no knowledge of their own history who happen to live in Britain and doubt this. All they need to do is look up in the sky from where they live and try to imagine that only 70 years ago bombs fell on their cities from that same sky and later in 1944 pilotless jets called "doodlebugs" and later in 1944 the V 1, a short ranged missile, were launched by the thousands from northern France and Belguim against London and a few other cities(I wonder if that will be twisted by some idiot to mean I want British cities bombed?) killing thousands.

There are sane and intelligent people here I agree with when they mention the Arab Spring as a born failure and turning out just as it has. A victory for the Muslim Brotherhood and Islamic Jihad and a step toward an Islamic caliphate across the world from Morocco to Indonesia.

As a Catholic I pray for the almost 9 million brother and sister Coptic Christians in Egypt who are enduring and will face even worse persecution by the Muslim fanatics who have taken over Egypt. The same applies to Christians persecuted by Muslims in Nigeria, Pakistan, Indonesia, Kosovo and dozens of other majority Muslim countries.

As a Catholic I also pray for the safety of Gays in Uganda and Egypt and all over the Muslim world who face death at the hands of Muslim fanatics who liberals, including Gay liberals, defend in the name of "tolerance" while they delight in trashing Christianity and at the same time enjoy their freedoms living in safety in majority Christian Western nations.

Regarding Uganda I merely posted the fact that country will pass the worst anti gay laws on earth before Christmas 2012 and advised Gays not to take a sex vacation there soon. That's all. Anything negative I supposedly said is a lie or a figment of some hysteric's hateful immigination. I also said things don't look good for Gays in Egypt which is obvious.

If I was a Gay living in a Western country or city with a large immigrant Muslim population which will grow even larger in the near future I would take the rapid growth of Islam around me VERY seriously. This isn't hate speech it's reality.

"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil" Thomas Mann

Liberal tolerance of those who want to kill us will be the end of Western Civilization.

How boring for the liberal mind to contemplate. History!

2 December 2012 at 18:06  
Blogger John Magee said...


My best wishes for many more years of happiness.

2 December 2012 at 18:09  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector: "Come on DanJ0 love, a comment from you on this issue ?"

About what exactly?

I'm not part of a homosexual community, like one might find in Brighton, or the so-called homosexual community, so I haven't much to say. I've not heard that HIV+ gay people are ostracised by other gay people. I'm surprised if so. I expect HIV+ people, gay or not, are ostracised by people in general. It still carries a sense of contagion, like leprosy, I suppose.

I've never had an STI nor do I expect to get one. You're very coy about admitting whether or not you're a very good Catholic, or a crap but repentant Catholic, or a cultural Catholic who doesn't give a shit about the Catholic god. If it's not the first one then you're probably at more of a risk of HIV than I am.

If I'm actually right, and I honestly think I am, then you're a very repressed gay man who probably gives in occasionally and meets men for anonymous sex in pub or park or service station toilets. If so then you're at significant risk yourself. Have you thought about having a test?

On World AIDS day, or whatever it's called, someone on TV was saying that there's perhaps 25% of those who probably have the virus who don't know it. Some of them may be straight African immigrants too, which will no doubt fire you and Magoo up. It's a bit intrusive but I'd almost be tempted to have everyone tested regularly so everyone knows their status. That would help stop its spread.

2 December 2012 at 18:18  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
An appeal for more frequent posts to avoid the unhelpful sniping that the prolonged post delays inevitably cause.
Len, Jesus took offence at those selling their in the temple. He drove them out with a scourge. That is how we should deal with those who propagate unholy practices as being normal and acceptable.

2 December 2012 at 18:22  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Why did you delete your comment about Uganda, Magoo? If that's all it actually was. You seem very shy of saying. ;)

2 December 2012 at 18:23  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr Integrity,

No matter how often His Grace posts, these threads invariably descend to this manner of puerile bickering. Honestly, the matter at hand has nothing to do with Roman Catholicism or homosexuality, but the resident trolls have (again) used His Grace's blog for their own agenda. One wonders why they don't just start their own blogs.

Sadly, there being no remedy to this tiresome abuse, His Grace has no apparent choice but to terminate his homilies.

2 December 2012 at 18:34  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

That was rather romantic and daring Dodo. Something to tell the grandchildren.

2 December 2012 at 18:35  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2 December 2012 at 18:40  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

I actually read His Grace's posts and always find them helpful and wise. I think Cranmer might be a Priest or a Rabbi?

2 December 2012 at 18:42  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Good for Dodo. I am glad that he has had 33 years of happily married life and it goes to show, 'I would do anything for love', is quite true.

2 December 2012 at 18:43  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Thank you and may God Bless you.

John Magee
Remember your own advice:

Silentium Aureum.

Never justify or explain yourself to our troll. Its his main tactic along with innuendo. He's been at it for years and its just a game he plays with older Catholic men who disapprove of his 'out and proud' homosexuality.

Of course, he's neither out nor proud. His friends don't know, apart from those he boasts of having seduced - as if. And he keeps it secret from his colleagues too - for career reasons. One wonders sometimes whether he is actually a practicing homoexual at all.

He's carried all this angst for years and directs it at older Catholic men. I suspect its connected to family relationships.

Why not ignore the troll?

2 December 2012 at 18:48  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Actually I noticed that the comments were from Mr Integrity to Mr Len, so I apologise to Mr Len for that and shall repost.

2 December 2012 at 18:58  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

hi everyone,

I agree with Carl on his take of this situation, so whilst Mr Integrity is busy scourging those who propagate unholy practices as being normal and acceptable, I for one want to get back to the spirit of the season(ROFL) :

"Deck the hall with boughs of holly,Fa la la la la la la la la.
'Tis the season to be jolly,
Fa la la la la la la la la.
Don we now our gay apparel
Fa la la la la la la la la."

2 December 2012 at 18:58  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Dodo, you and your sidekick were like a whippet after a rabbit as soon as I posted something after a break from here. Looking back, your sidekick was posting something on practically every thread after I disappeared to try to goad a response from me. Eventually, he resorted to posting misogynistic and racist comments to try to goad others, and tried to cause trouble between one of the newcomers and someone else here. You switched to Len and Blofeld who seem to be your backup targets when all else fails. It's you and your little group who ramp up the rhetoric and trouble here. As a liberal, atheist, gay, secularism advocate, I'm always going to be the foil in comments down here but it doesn't need to be verbally violent like it is.

2 December 2012 at 18:59  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Mr Cranmer

I know we don't get along and I'm probably one of those you have in mind, but do reconsider.

I have determined already to amend my behaviour on your blog, starting tonigh, and hope others will follow.

Rather than close down, why not consider issuing 'yellow cards' with 3 stricks and you're suspended for a time or even permanently excluded?

2 December 2012 at 19:00  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Why don't you and your little clique take a break from here for two or three weeks and see what the atmosphere is like down here during that time? I think the change would be startling, unlike when I was absent for that time.

2 December 2012 at 19:11  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...


Not anything for love, no!

If I'd known Canon Law at the time I'd have sought and, in all probability, been granted dispensation by the Church to marry. It was righting the error that proved complex.

In order, my prioriies:

- God
- Family
- Parish community
- Profession

2 December 2012 at 19:12  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2 December 2012 at 19:12  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Why did you delete your comment about Uganda if it was as benign as you claim, Magoo?

2 December 2012 at 19:23  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

If a theistic god exists like Catholics claim then it will know what was in your heart when you wrote it, you know. There's no deleting of that record with a click or two if, as I say, your beliefs are actually true.

2 December 2012 at 19:38  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast the Pleb said...

I thought the exchanges with Ernst were a little tense but generally even and not without a degree of good humour - and the few new faces certainly rose to the occasion. Chortles in most posts, which suggests Ernsty is winning the rhetoric war.

The UKIP threads are all fairly civilized. The disputes between Protestants and Catholics have, er, "robustly asserted" positions on both sides - but the more vicious stuff (evenly distributed) was largely between the usual parties, barring the odd moment where Protestant got Protestant in their crosshairs.

There's certainly been more bile in the last 24 hours than the last week. And that's with an Israel/Palestine thread that didn't completely descend into the usual madness.

Problem is, we haven't enough data to draw conclusions. I'd suggest we need a base line, which would mean nobody posting any bile for a bit, and then posting it in carefully controlled groups to see where the problem lies.

Failing that we could simply try to abide by our Lord's example, and love our enemies, love our brothers and sisters, and focus on what is worthy.

2 December 2012 at 19:39  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Archbishop. You are the finest Christian blogger in Christendom. Rather than see you close, the Inspector implores you to use the weapon of excommunication, even if this man is on your list. Better to follow you silently than not at all...

2 December 2012 at 19:40  
Blogger John Magee said...

Hasn't there been a full moon the past three nights?

2 December 2012 at 19:45  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast the Pleb said...

Wednesday was a full moon, and a bloomin' bright one from Belfast.

2 December 2012 at 19:47  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

AIB said ...
"There's certainly been more bile in the last 24 hours than the last week."

Slightly longer than 24 hours, I reckon. Here's where it started:

DanJ0 said...
"It's from the Wikipedia entry for consequentialism. Copy&Paste Catholics."
(1 December 2012 15:34)

And still he keeps it going - @ 19.23 and 19.38.

2 December 2012 at 19:54  
Blogger AnonymousInBelfast the Pleb said...

Let it be, Dodo. There are so many better things to be thinking about on a Sunday evening.

Here's what's on my mind right now:

2 December 2012 at 19:59  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2 December 2012 at 20:06  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Also Dodo,

Ow! And there was me hoping for some romantic tale of how you defined the Church to marry the woman you loved or something...

2 December 2012 at 20:13  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

Hi Dodo,

Read the bit about elves! I might be a tad short at five foot six, compared to some one who is a lanky six foot two, but I am in no way as short as an elf. And I don't have pointy ears. LOL.

2 December 2012 at 20:17  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2 December 2012 at 20:22  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2 December 2012 at 21:20  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

AIB: "There's certainly been more bile in the last 24 hours than the last week."

Of course there has. They bloody love it when I'm about because I fight back hard and they know it. Len and Blofeld do the same. None of us will be bullied. Certainly not me by a bunch of homophobic twunts.

2 December 2012 at 21:22  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

This has been going on for nearly 18 months with the anti-gay and anti-evangelical stuff, plus at least another 3 months with all sorts of dubious stuff attacking the blog itself.

2 December 2012 at 21:29  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

DanJ0. YOU are a disruptive influence. Anyone doubting that should re-read the recent threads when YOU were absent. You are a wrecker by nature, and a foul mouthed one at that. Keep your angst to yourself, this isn’t YOUR blog – It’s here for the sake of CHRIST, not those that reject Him !

Archbishop. Your culprit stands identified. Deal with him in the severest fashion...

2 December 2012 at 21:37  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Inspector, here's some selected quotes from you during my absence:

"Saints be praised. An entire thread without the benefit of DanJ0’s input."

"Cranmer Classifieds: Public Notices 17th November 2013

DanJ0. Missing, one year. “Forever young”

From a grateful Inspector..."

"John Henson, are you a homosexual by any chance ?"

"Do forgive the question on your sexuality. You see, we had a queer type who resided her until recently and was a damn disruptive type. It looks like he’s been a victim of his own ‘gay abandon’ philosophy, and is lying low for the time being, wound licking, if you will..."

"Do like the “FFs play the victim” – been there you know, old girl. Also, reminds one of DanJo. One wonders how his test resluts are coming along..."

I wasn't even here then.

2 December 2012 at 21:53  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...


Sorry to disappoint but it is a romanic tale (sort of) when you think about it.

And being an elf is a state of mind. You can do it no matter how tall or short you are.

2 December 2012 at 22:09  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

DanJ0. Why don’t you just accept the blindfold and be led to the execution post. When the game is up, that is what the Inspector would do in you in your shoes...

Archbishop. Habeas corpus old man. What will you have YOU do with him...

2 December 2012 at 22:25  
Blogger Marie1797 said...

Well I think if His Grace was really annoyed with some posters on his blog I'm sure he would email them a little message via blogger requesting they rein it in.

Danj0 should lighten up a bit and maybe the Inspector could now and then turn his filter on.
The banter is funny sometimes but gets a bit tedious all the time. I guess he's pushing the boundaries. But, we don't want to be reading a news headline “Homosexual finally jumps off window ledge”

2 December 2012 at 22:33  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

The headline would read:

"Man in Gold Lame Hotpants Leaps from Window - Chained to two unknown males in a military uniform and a bird suit!"


2 December 2012 at 22:48  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Marie: "But, we don't want to be reading a news headline “Homosexual finally jumps off window ledge”"

Very good. I was a callow youth back then and the world was a very different place, both in attitudes and in social connectivity. I've been on the 'Net since its inception and so I know how to draw a boundary between real life and this sort of stuff. That said, if some of this homophobic bullying is indicative then I'm quite happy to take it right up to the church gates and push our rights down the throats of such people if they think we'll ever be forced out of sight now by intimidation.

2 December 2012 at 22:55  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

But DanJ0, that’s what the gay agenda is all about. You lot shoving your condition down innocent peoples throats, whether they be church going or not. You are a nasty piece of work that should be excluded from this site. After all, you are a Stonewall placeman, are you not ?

2 December 2012 at 23:13  
Blogger The Way of Dodo said...

Police are hunting for a shadowy criminal mastermind, known as Bloefeld, say inside sources who have received substantial bribes.

Tweets and mobile phone conversations have been illegally intercepted by the Daily Planet between Bloefeld and an as yet untraceable person, thought to have ancient Anglican connections, commissioning the assassination of the 3 victims. The motive is unclear at this time.

We can exclusively reveal the assassin, known as The Weasel bungled the assignment and pushed the 3 men from a ground floor window causing only minor bruising. He is currently in Police custody detained under the Mental Health Act.

The 3 males are comfortable but medical staff, again amply rewarded for breaching medical confidentiality, report they are having to be kept apart due to pernsonal differances.

2 December 2012 at 23:18  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

The sheeple have devolved the concept of free speech into bleating idiocy, worthy of a modern day snoozepaper

2 December 2012 at 23:24  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Absolutely hilarious. ROFL at the imagery.
Ernsty is going to find it difficult to top this one. Sleep well in your Calvin Klein shorts.
Silly Bugga (giggles)

2 December 2012 at 23:51  
Blogger John Magee said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

3 December 2012 at 00:45  
Blogger Di said...

Your Grace,
You are providing an unique and irreplacable public service. Please do not allow yourself to be deterred by idiots who strive to create conflict where none esists.

3 December 2012 at 01:58  
Blogger John Magee said...

Britain must define it's ancient freedoms going all the way back to Magna Carta in a 21st century constitution which would be written and approved by the powers that be and become the unquestioned law of the land. A good place to start might be by adopting the First Amendment of the Constitution of it's once rebellious North American child the USA with a few changes in wording:

Congress (Parliament) shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (as long as there is the C of E this could be left out), or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

It's this simple to guarantee the freedoms of the British people forever in writing.

3 December 2012 at 03:55  
Blogger William said...

Your Grace

It would be a travesty were you to desist, but I understand your frustration. Perhaps you could have two dicussion threads running permanently in parallel to the main threads.

One called

Homosexuality is OK, discuss.

the other

Roman Catholicism is OK, discuss.

Anyone wishing to pursue these topics in the wrong thread could be directed to the correct thread.

3 December 2012 at 09:11  
Blogger Brian West said...

Your Grace

I absolutely support Di, 01.58. I sympathise with William 09.11, though I doubt if it's your job to make such provision.

But please find a way to keep blogging and if possible to persuade followers to stay on topic.

3 December 2012 at 09:53  
Blogger Archbishop Cranmer said...

Mr West,

There is no way. His Grace has politely entreated, requested and warned. It is all so depressingly time-consuming.

3 December 2012 at 10:11  
Blogger E.xtra S.ensory Blofeld + Tiddles said...

Your Grace

Old Ernst has been a tad unwell over the weekend (The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak and decrepit) but was horrified to see you being provoked to close your blog by miscreants.

As General Stillwell said in glorious ungrammatical latin "Illegitimus non carborundum"

or for the purists..Noli sinere malos te vexare!!

As Frankel has now retired, what on earth else have I got to take an interest in other than your wonderful blog. Pity the elderly who have little else to look forward to from this secular world, old fella. It's like being told they are cancelling Easter!!

Please reconsider?

E S Blofeld

3 December 2012 at 11:14  
Blogger IanCad said...


Some may say that I'm verging on hyperbole, but, truly, YG you are as one crying in the wilderness.
Disenchantment, depression and despair is only to be expected when a course such as yours is taken.
To lighten the path of an apathetic and frivolous tribe is to embark on an endeavour that will test the heartiest of us.
That you have endured so long and without any seemingly tangible reward is testimony to your fortitude.
You are an intrepid man. If you take a break from your ministry it would certainly be with my best wishes; and in the hope that you should soon return refreshed.

"Fight on, my men!" says Sir Andrew Barton,
"I am hurt, but I am not slain;
I’le lay me downe and bleed a-while,
And then I’le rise and fight again."

3 December 2012 at 11:29  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
Tis true, yours is the best Political/Christian blog. If you review the first fifty or so so comments, they tend to stay more or less on thread. Perhaps a cut off point might be some sort of solution. As the Inspector said, the reading is more important than the commenting.
Nothing most of your detractors could say would be of any interest to you. Your followers will be content to hear and learn.

3 December 2012 at 11:43  
Blogger Preacher said...

Dr Cranmer. I would add my voice to Mr Blofeld's & request that you do not act in haste & deprive the more sensible, less childish communicants of your excellent Blog.
I feel that the subjects that you write about have considerable effect on those that read the debates, even if they do not post & have been very beneficial in changing the status quo for the better.
I fully understand & commiserate with you & note that we often do not hear from some of those old friends whose submissions we used to enjoy who have possibly been put of posting by the childish, indeed infantile behaviour of the few. But I would earnestly beg of you not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

To those whose ill manners, bad language & tedious & tiresome bickering have led to this situation. Try to behave, grow up & smell the coffee, before it's too late & we all lose this excellent Blog.

3 December 2012 at 11:56  
Blogger DanJ0 said...

Unfortunately, it's become impossible for me to even post anything relevant and polite to the thread now without being attacked, as the Armistice Day thread showed only too well recently. It's long been impossible to debate anythng more weighty without a Greek Chorus deliberately trying to trash it from the sidelines. It's just a blatant attempt at systematic bullying by a couple of people acting in concert and it's been relentless for over 18 months. If it were just one person then it could be readily ignored and it would peter out, no pun intended, but they know that talkng over someone can't be ignored in the same way. As can be seen from the snippets above, I don't even need to be posting here for a while for it to be going on. It's nothing I can't handle personally of course but it's completely taken over the place, and if it's not me being the target for whatever reason then it just moves onto certain others instead. I'm at least as fed up of it as everyone else, more so given that it takes a certain amount mental energy to punch back all the time.

3 December 2012 at 14:15  
Blogger Mr Integrity said...

Your Grace,
Oh dear, here come the grovelors!
It wasn’t me mu Lord, It was him/her that you gave me made me do it!

3 December 2012 at 14:33  

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