Sunday, November 11, 2012

We Will Remember Them

49 Comments:

Blogger Bred in the bone said...

I recently watched a video by an American about taking back our words

It was about not using Government terms, such as third party, which would imply a first and second party before you

And not using words like pentagon, when we are simply dealing with the war department

I emailed this video and got an email back, which said that Hitler once spoke of how the British use words for psycological purposes

Apperently Germans called upon replacement troops, why we called for re-enforcements

Many struggle to understand what our forefathers where sacrificed for now, looking at what the Country has become but do not allow them to demoralize us, with their psycological warfare

Nice picture

11 November 2012 08:54  
Blogger Naomi King said...

Your Grace may I strongly recommend you watch this http://vimeo.com/52009124

11 November 2012 09:20  
Blogger Span Ows said...

It is odd that all the efforts to prevent war seem to push it slowly but surely down the path towards it.

11 November 2012 09:20  
Blogger Damian said...

We will remember them?

By the state the country is in, we evidently don't.

11 November 2012 10:06  
Blogger len said...

'We Will Remember Them'.

And we must remember what they lived for and what they died for.

Freedom from tyranny, freedom from oppression,the right to determine our own future,Our Sovereignty.

If we merely pay'lip service' to freedom (National and personal freedom) we dishonour all those who have fallen in their service to this Country.

11 November 2012 11:53  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

11 November 2012 12:12  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

In Flanders Fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


A national treasure of ours and a familiar poem throughout the English-speaking world, penned in 1915 by a Canadian from Guelph, Ontario, a physician and Lieutenant Colonel in the Canadian Expeditionaey Force, John McCrae.

11 November 2012 12:26  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

Your Grace,

Yes we shall remember them.

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them."

11 November 2012 12:58  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

While we are in the act of remembering the sacrifice of earlier generations, we should also give our appreciation to those devices that prevent one nation in Europe dominating the others through force of arms – Nuclear weapons.

And as the EU crumbles to dust, we should be glad that one nation is unable to dominate the others through economic means, and having realised that, is unable to resort to force of arms, despite the veiled threats of a certain lady chancellor...

11 November 2012 13:05  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Here dead we lie
Because we did not choose
To live and shame the land
From which we sprung.

Life, to be sure,
Is nothing much to lose,
But young men think it is,
And we were young.

A E Housman

11 November 2012 15:02  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11 November 2012 16:39  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Last Friday (unremarked and unlamented) was the 89th Anniversary of the Beer Hall Putsch. Sixteen men who marched with Hitler that day were killed as well as four policemen. When Hitler came to power, he had those sixteen men disinterred, placed in iron sarcophagi and laid to rest in a memorial he had built in Munich - the Ehrentempel. It was intended to be a Holy Place of the Nazi Party perpetually guarded by members (one hesitates to call them soldiers) of SS-Standarte "Deutschland." In 1945, the American army removed the bodies. The structure was demolished in January, 1947.

Whether for good or for evil, the living remember the dead for the sake of the living. Our enemy constructs monuments and memorials, and cover them with such honor and glory as he sees fit. Then we come along as conqueror and remove his memorials in order to replace them with our own. We seek to erase the memory of the enemy that his evil may be erased as well. Then we build our own memorials to the good we have done. But what of permanence have we accomplished with our memorials? Whether for good or for evil, time and chance happeneth to all. In the end we are nothing but dust - forgotten dust in forgotten graves. The sacrifice of long-forgotten causes. As it is written "Dust tho art and unto dust thou shalt return." We seek to establish some permanent record of our existence but our records are as much dust as we ourselves. Shall we succeed where those we conquered manifestly failed? This is vanity. Vanity and dust. There is no one to remember. We are all condemned to be forgotten.

Except. Except God does not forget. He remembers every man. He knows every particle of dust. On the Last Day He shall call forth each of us by name. Whether to glorify or condemn, He shall overlook not even one. And then His purpose will be fulfilled. The permanent record of man is not found in the the futility of his efforts any more than Adam found covering with leaves. It may only be found in the fulfilled purpose of the creature before his Creator. "This is the whole purpose of man, to glorify God and enjoy Him forever." Everything else passes away into dust. The flags. The memorials. The causes. The sacrifices. In the end, only this will remain.

carl

11 November 2012 16:42  
Blogger non mouse said...

Indeed, Your Grace: We will remember them. We should remember them; and "we" includes those traitors who insult them today.

Thanks to all, and to LL for the Binyon. Here's a bit more:

With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children,
England mourns for her dead across the sea.
Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of her spirit,
Fallen in the cause of the free.

Solemn the drums thrill; Death august and royal
Sings sorrow up into immortal spheres,
There is music in the midst of desolation
And a glory that shines upon our tears.

They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted;
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

11 November 2012 17:06  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

Women have, of course been involved in and been affected by our wars from time imemorial, but only recently have they had regular combat roles in our armies. Here is the first stanza in a draft of a touching poem by a soldier's mother, R.M. Jacobs:

She Wore Green

I watched her dress that morning,
we didn’t sleep,
in the darkness of morning’s start
her bags blocking the hallway
they were larger than either of the children,
she slipped into their rooms
kissed their cheeks lightly
whispered “I love you dearly”
then fell into my arms.
She tried to remain brave
but I could feel her body tremble
quaking from the inside out.
Before her kisses cooled on my lips
the darkness swallowed her up.
[...]


The rest is at:
http://jacobsverse.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/she-wore-green/.

And here is an image of an illustration I made from a newspaper photo showing our troops readying to board a flight for deployment to Afghanistan in 2006. For several years I wondered how the subject, a Canadian woman soldier, Corporal Bonnie Seaborg shown holding her 13 day-old nephew, fared and posted it online, with the hope that it would be found by her or her family. Upon her return to Calgary, after an honourable service in Afghanistan, Cpl Seaborg contacted me and I was pleased and honoured to send her a digital version. I hope to do better and to paint an oil on canvas one day soon and present it to her as well:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6937/cplseaborg.jpg



11 November 2012 17:07  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Carl, another manifestation of your extreme Protestantism of course. You would deny us the opportunity to remember the glorious dead. One suspects you write this with the idea in your head that any memorial is infringing on that terrible forbidden idolatry, and we definitely can’t have that, can we ?

11 November 2012 17:11  
Blogger IanCad said...

Carl @ 16:46,

A very thoughtful post.
If The Lord tarry there will be no memorials. Dust and tares will replace them.
But how very good for the living are these reminders of nations heeding the call.
Your Veterans Day and our Remembrance Day. If nothing else, gives hope that despite the shallowness and vanity of our societies there is still a latent worthiness that needs but only the impulse to reawaken.
Unfortunately that could be for good or ill.

To my mind Kipling's "Recessional" strikes the right balance.

God of our fathers, known of old—
Lord of our far-flung battle line—
Beneath whose awful hand we hold
Dominion over palm and pine—
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!

The tumult and the shouting dies—
The Captains and the Kings depart—
Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice,
An humble and a contrite heart.
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!

Far-called our navies melt away—
On dune and headland sinks the fire—
Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!

If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe—
Such boastings as the Gentiles use,
Or lesser breeds without the Law—
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!

For heathen heart that puts her trust
In reeking tube and iron shard—
All valiant dust that builds on dust,
And guarding calls not Thee to guard.
For frantic boast and foolish word,
Thy Mercy on Thy People, Lord!
Amen.

11 November 2012 17:35  
Blogger Hannah Kavanagh said...

'We shall remember them'

The picture says more than words could say, although the poems Carl, Avi and Ian have chosen are really moving and remind me of how thankful we need to be for past generations, who, when needed, took up arms to fight for our civilisation.

Thanks guys for sharing.

We do of course also need to remember and support the people who have fought in wars since WWII and who are fighting even now in Iraq & Afghanistan and their families and friends .

11 November 2012 18:09  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

OIG

You misunderstand. I didn't say to deconstruct memorials. The point is to hold them lightly; to remember that anything man does is by nature transient. There is no eternal value in the temporal remembrance of man. It must of necessity return to dust just as everything associated with man must return to dust.

Something else to consider. Men do not earn favor with God by dying selflessly for noble causes. How many stones in military cemeteries mark the graves of the damned?

carl

11 November 2012 18:24  
Blogger Office of Inspector General said...

Carl, we’ve been here before. A Catholic would tell you that a man, no matter about his past, might earn sufficient grace from God to be saved, if he loses his life in war to save his friends. The justification of that in that being “There is no greater love...”. A Calvinist would say this cannot be the case. Your stance is respected, so no more discussion worthwhile.

If you accept the notion of original sin, then as a body, man is certainly not transient. He has made his mark on the earth, which will remain until the day the sun explodes...


11 November 2012 19:11  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

How many stones in military cemeteries mark the graves of the damned?

Even if I believed in your god, I would find this remark grossly offensive at any time, let alone on this day.

11 November 2012 19:20  
Blogger John Magee said...

Carl Jacobs

The 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month in 1918 WW I ended.

"The War to End All Wars"

The people of the world were told back then...and they believed it.

All these poems and sentiments expressed here are good and must be repeated yet nothing can dismiss the fact all those millions of young men who died on all sides in WW I should never had to die in the first place.

"The War to End All Wars"

It didn't.

This totally unnecessary War set in motion historical events that changed the 20th century and our world forever.

Winston Churchill said to his friend Harold Nicolson after the Treaty of Versailles was signed in 1919 which penalized Germany wrongly with loss of territory and reparation payments, when in fact all sides wanted a war in 1914, "we will be at war with Germany within 25 years"....

Carl... November 9th is the anniversary of three important events in 20th Century Germany History

1. November 9, 1923. Hitler's failed so called Berr Hall Putch

2. November 9, 1938. Kristallnacht when mobs of Nazi's attacked and burned synagogues, stores, and home in Germany launching Hitler's war on the Jews.

3. November 9, 1989. The night the Berlin wall fell and the Cold War ended.

In my opinion WW I, which started in July 1914 after the assassination in late June 1914 of an Austrian Archduke and his wife in Sarajevo which immediatley snowballed out of control and set into motion a stupid war that transformed Europe, caused unbelievable misery, gave us the Russian Revolution, WW II with all it's horrors including the Holociast, destruction of many of the the great cities of Europe, the atomic bomb, and after 1945 the the Cold War ended on November 9, 1989.

11 November 2012 20:13  
Blogger Bred in the bone said...

Parable of the Old Men and the Young

SO ABRAM rose, and clave the wood, and went,
And took the fire with him, and a knife.
And as they sojourned both of them together,
Isaac the first-born spake and said, My Father,
Behold the preparations, fire and iron,
But where the lamb for this burnt-offering?
Then Abram bound the youth with belts and straps,
And builded parapets and trenches there,
And stretch\ed forth the knife to slay his son.
When lo! an angel called him out of heaven,
Saying, Lay not thy hand upon the lad,
Neither do anything to him. Behold,
A ram caught in a thicket by its horns;
Offer the Ram of Pride instead of him.
But the old man would not so, but slew his son
And half the seed of Europe, one by one.

Wilfred Owen

11 November 2012 20:26  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Dreadnaught

Even if I believed in your god, I would find this remark grossly offensive at any time, let alone on this day.

Why? Because you would prefer not to contemplate the actual magnitude of the cost involved? This is the problem with man. He considers himself eminently worthy of the sacrifice offered. The secret agenda of remembrance is to tacitly acknowledge the value of the living relative to the dead. The pain of separation experienced by the living must be attenuated by thoughts of peace and rest for the dead. It must not be marred by thoughts of eternal punishment. Better the comfortable illusion of sacrifice nobly offered and humbly accepted.

In the meantime, you might explain how in the absence of that 'God you don't believe in' that you are able to differentiate between the men remembered in Britain on this day, and those 16 men honored in Munich some 80 years ago. Other than you own arbitrary preferences, of course.

carl

11 November 2012 20:30  
Blogger John Magee said...


Here's an example of what the present generation of mush minds think of the hero's who died for their country in the past. You can be sure they won't be wearing red poppies in their button holes on their lapels November 11th:

LONDON (AP) December 10, 2010

— The son of Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour has issued a public apology for climbing on top of one of Britain’s most important war memorials during violent student protests against rising university fees.

Charlie Gilmour says he wants to say sorry for the “terrible insult” to the thousands who died for the country. He says he did not realize the Cenotaph in central London commemorates Britain’s war dead. (!!!!!!!!)

He added in a statement Friday that he was ashamed for his “moment of idiocy.”

During the same mob demonstrations anti police and government graffiti was spray painted on the granite base of the statue of Sir Winston Churchill near the Houses of Parliament. I am now looking at photo made famous then of a young man, which was taken during those riots, urinating against that same statue of Britain's great WW II leader as though it is a public WC.

11 November 2012 20:31  
Blogger bluedog said...

Mr IanCad @ 17.35, this communicant's view of Rudyard Kipling is influenced by reading about the death of his only son: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudyard_Kipling#Son.27s_death_in_First_World_War

'If any question why we died

Tell them, because our fathers lied.'

Indeed.

11 November 2012 20:39  
Blogger IanCad said...

bluedog

Good Point!
WW1: Folly upon folly. Even when it was over our wise leaders ensured it would have to be fought again.

There were many poets who saw things as they stood, and were contemptuous of the jingoism and posturing of the men in charge.

Siegfried Sassoon, T.S Eliot and
G.K. Chesterton had it right:

"THE men that worked for England
They have their graves at home:
And birds and bees of England
About the cross can roam.

But they that fought for England,
Following a falling star,
Alas, alas for England
They have their graves afar.

And they that rule in England,
In stately conclave met,
Alas, alas for England
They have no graves as yet."

11 November 2012 21:01  
Blogger Gareth said...

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. God forbid that we should ever be in a position of power or influence on a day as black as 1 September 1939, or 28th July 1914, or even a day like 2 April 1982. For as Shakespeare tells us, the if cause be not good, the king hath a heavy reckoning to make.

11 November 2012 21:21  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11 November 2012 21:25  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

Carl,

I will readily admit that I walk amongst the family crypt daily and wonder when it will be my turn for me to be entombed there along with my ancestors.

I know myself that I shall meet my maker and perhaps he shall or not have good or bad things to say of me, but Jesus Christ shall be there as my defence.

I have to admit that war is a horrible matter and to say I was not fearful for my life, during those terrible years,would be a lie.

I only hope that something good came of that sacrifice and it is just that.

You must understand that if you have friends and people close to you whose profession it is to fight and I pray that if this happened (happens) to you, then you will remain as -to use the British sterotype- as stiff upper lipped.

You have not chosen your moment well, for you appear to be callous, although I doubt that with your integrity.

Pick a fight with this Dreadnaught character at a different time. I have no love of this rouge since he insulted the family name, but there is a time to mourn and remember the dead who fought for King and Country and a time for theological -atheistic discourse,for everything there is a season, is there not?

11 November 2012 21:26  
Blogger John Magee said...

Lord lavendon

Two World Wars, an ocean of blood spilled by our finest young men, and now we face a 21st century complete surrender of our homelands to Islam and the 3rd world...

11 November 2012 22:04  
Blogger Avi Barzel said...

I'm thinking that if His Grace posted favourite cake recipes as a topic, ten posts down there'd be fightin' happening.

11 November 2012 22:23  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

Lord Lavendon

I disagree. Veteran's Day is not a funeral. There is no immediate proximity of death that makes the wound raw. This is precisely the moment that men will think on these things. I myself came to these realizations because I found myself contemplating the cost of war on Veterans Day. I can now hardly read the story of a winner of a posthumous Medal of Honor without asking myself "But what became of him?" The US Gov't can bury a man with honors, but what value does that provide to him in Hell? The honor of man is nothing when set against the judgment of God.

I picked no fight with Dreadnaught. I was providing to OIG the ultimate example of the transient value of man's memorials. Dreadnaught took offense. Well so be it. More significant truths than this have caused offense to the Unbeliever. What offends him is rooted in his unbelief. To him the most significant aspect of this argument is that men died selflessly for a cause. He tacitly asserts that the whole of a man's life can only be judged in immanent terms, and giving one's life for another is the most honored thing a man can do under the restriction of immanence. Metaphysical notions of (in his mind, fictitious) judgment simply demean the life sacrificed. Unfortunately, that judgment is the necessary outcome of life. We can't ignore it just because some would prefer not to think about it. The preferred judgments of man impose no obligations on God.

carl

11 November 2012 22:33  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

John Magee,

Don't make me even more depressed than I already am... that can wait 'til tomorrow.

11 November 2012 22:43  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

Carl,

"Veteran's Day is not a funeral. There is no immediate proximity of death that makes the wound raw"

Alas to me it is as thus and the wounds are still raw. But that is my problem and not yours.

"Contemplating the cost".

Yes. Children lost fathers, wives husbands,young women the chance of marriage & brothers,sisters, cousins, uncles, nieces, nephews and friends. We lost those who might have been scientists, poets, leaders and the children that could have been born. So yes, it is correct to contemplate the cost.

War is a necessary evil, but an evil nonetheless.

11 November 2012 22:52  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

Avi,

"I'm thinking that if His Grace posted favourite cake recipes as a topic, ten posts down there'd be fightin' happening."

No, no fightin' for this old man. This is not my intent for today.

Back to my Scotch anyhow...

11 November 2012 22:56  
Blogger Lord Lavendon said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11 November 2012 23:00  
Blogger non mouse said...

Mr. Jacobs: in my direct experience, Americans tend to make a fuss about training people to respect differences between their culture and those of their hosts and/or visitors. I therefore have reason to believe that I am qualified to inform you of this: today, you are failing to recognize a major difference between US and UK cultures.

In short, Americans generally have no idea of what the British endured throughout those 2 WORLD WARS; what we know and think about the conflicts; how much we owe to those who were sacrificed; or how many of our families were decimated during those years.

Perhaps it will help you to remember how your countrymen reacted to 9/11. That was a one-of, and it wasn't even a bombing raid.

So... however much you despise us, please understand that your consideration would be appreciated.

11 November 2012 23:08  
Blogger Cressida de Nova said...

Good choice Bones. Powerful poem..a hit right between the eyes,rather like some of the negative comments... and on a day such as this
(sigh)A true indication of the worth of a person.

11 November 2012 23:50  
Blogger Manfarang said...

"When You Go Home, Tell Them Of Us And Say,
For Their Tomorrow, We Gave Our Today"

Words inscribed on the Kohima Memorial and at Hell Fire Pass.



12 November 2012 03:24  
Blogger Manfarang said...

Ian Cad
17:35
There is a bleak Japanese memorial in Kanjanaburi to all those who perished on the building of the Siam-Burma railway-the death railway.
The countless Asians who died have no graves.
There are two war cemeteries for the British, Dutch and Australians.

12 November 2012 03:42  
Blogger John Magee said...

non mouse

Excuse me.

Why the need to insult the USA on Armistice Day?

Most Americans I know are well aware of the suffering the people of Britain endured during both World Wars and have nothing but complete respect for Britain. I don't know where you gather some of your fantasies but sometimes your sharp tongue and waspish temperament here needs corrected.

Are you aware that thousands of British children were evacuated to the USA after war started in 1939 and taken care of by Americans in their homes for most of WW II?

That's just one example of a long list I can post of how the USA helped Britian during WW's I and especially WW II because it was the right thing to do. It was for our mutual survival during WW II.

Almost 700,000 American soldiers, sailors, and marines died in both World Wars I & II including over 27,000 USAAF aimen who were killed in the air war flying their B-17's over Europe during WW II bombing missions over Germany and other targets in occupied Europe. Many of these American airmen who flew their missions from airbases in Britain are buried in USA Military Cemetaries in England. A couple of hundred thousand other American soldiers from both World Wars are also buried in cemeteries all over Western Europe.

Give us some credit.

These 700,000 American dead also had mothers, fathers, wives and childen here back home who would rather their sons and husbands would have never had to die in European and Asian wars we didn't start but had to help end.

May God bless you.


12 November 2012 04:46  
Blogger John Magee said...

Iancad

After WW I ended the leaders of all the nations, both Allied and the Central Powers, who started or supported starting WW I in 1914 should have been lined up against a wall and shot. Too bad the Tsar was already dead.

@ Manfarang

The British, American, Aussies, Kiwi's, Dutch, Phillipinos, etc who died in Jap POW camps were considered human trash by the Japs and executed or beaten to death by them in the jungles of Asia. Their emaciated bodies we then thrown into gutters to rot or shallow holes called "graves" without the slightest respect shown by Japanese soldiers.

A REAL outrage is the Yasukimi Shrine in Tokyo where Japanese Military hero's ashes are enshrined including WW II Japanese War criminals who commited terrible atrocities against Allied POWS and civilians including germ warfare experiemnts on Australian, British, and American POW's in Jap camps in norhtern China. Jap militaryb "hero's enshrined include Class-A war criminals such as Yosuke Matsuoka and Toshio Shiratori. On 17 October 1978, 14 Class A war criminals had their ashes enshrined in this memorial in Tokyo and the world said nothing. China and Korea protested and they were ignored. Thousands of boxes of ashes of Jap WW II war criminals of a lesser status than Class A criminals are enshired at the Yasukuni shrine.

This would be the same as if Germany today would allow the ashes or the bones of Rudolf Hess or other top Nazi's and SS buried with honors at a WW II War Memorial built on the Under den Linden in the center of Berlin to honor Nazi heros.

The Japanese do this at the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo and no one is outraged.

There is even a statue representing a kamikazi pilot in front of the Yasukuni shrine building.

12 November 2012 05:34  
Blogger carl jacobs said...

John Magee

No, you misunderstand. non mouse did not attack the US. Britain did suffer considerably more than the US in the two world wars. As an example, something like 2% of the British population died during the First World War. Only the American Civil War compares in terms of deaths per capita for the US. What non mouse in fact said was "Our suffering was so great that we have earned the right to not be troubled by inconvenient truths." Because what I said was incontrovertibly true.

non mouse

I do not despise you. What I said was universally true. It is just as true for my country as yours. It has nothing to do with how much you owe to those who were sacrificed. There is a temporal perspective and there is an eternal perspective. The objective truth of the later is not dictated by our feelings regarding the former.

carl

12 November 2012 06:00  
Blogger non mouse said...

Mr. Magee ... I intend no insult to the US; I pointed out a cultural difference and general American unawareness of that difference. Your personal perceptions may be slightly more sensitive than those of others.

I am fully cognizant of your country's contribution; my father's uncle provided land for an American air base in England. All of those involved surely merit our respect today.

For the record, I know some Americans who respect the British .... and some who do not. Yet I will not discuss the matter further at this time and place. It is now Veterans' Day in the US (1:13 a.m. EST, I believe). You, and they, have my respect for that occasion.

Have a wonderful 3-day weekend.

12 November 2012 06:16  
Blogger John Magee said...

@ Carl jacobs

Yes, 600,000 men lost out of a population of 35 million in 1860 when the Civil War began was catastrophic. I live in SW Pennsylvania and my small town endured being shelled and later burned by the Confederates who crossed over from Virginia (now West Virginia). The Stars and Bars of Dixie flew over our courthouse for 5 days. My great great grandparents farm west of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania was burned in 1863. There was starvation then too so real war existed here 150 years ago.

@ non mouse

I apologize if I sounded harsh and may have jumped the gun with my comments.

It's impossible to generalize about people. I can honestly tell you that I know of no Americans, other than a handful of "professional Irish" types, who harbor any animosity toward Britain. The rigid inherited class structure in Britain is something we find difficult to understand but that's none of our concern.

We have our share of foolish snobs and idiots too.

By the way. When we talk about the Revolutionary War it's as history and not meant to be current events...

12 November 2012 07:53  
Blogger non mouse said...

Thank you, Mr. Jacobs.

Yesterday, I read Poe's essay Eureka; perhaps you might find it interesting. Science notwithstanding, in his Preface he sounds quite like you:
What I here propound is true:– therefore it cannot die:–or if by any means it be now trodden down so that it die, it will "rise again to the Life Everlasting."

While Poe's biophilia might surprise some, his view strikes me as neo-Platonic. A principle applicable within that system is that, during our time in earth, we can learn -through interaction- about the journey from cupiditas to Caritas. That is, from and through the physical and temporal, to ...

Only God knows how well, or what an individual learns; only He decides who is saved. However, some of us acknowledge a debt to those who experienced so much of Hell on Earth, sacrificing themselves for our right to complete that journey. Some of us are sure we will never see their like again. Some of us may consider that our journey has been predicated on the carnage of those wars.

For those who wish to recognize and meditate upon these things, in our individual ways, Remembrance Sunday grants a special pause.


12 November 2012 08:03  
Blogger Dreadnaught said...

I will not discuss the matter further at this time and place. It is now Veterans' Day in the US (1:13 a.m. EST, I believe). You, and they, have my respect for that occasion.

Thank you Ms Mouse - my sentiments exactly.

12 November 2012 14:20  
Blogger Manfarang said...

John Magee
I know how the Japanese treated POWs.I have met survivors who were made to work on the Siam-Burma railway.
The Imperial Japanese army were very brutal towards the Chinese and feelings remain high about the Yasukuni shrine its war criminals.
There is also a museum there which unacceptably glorifies the Japanese war effort.

12 November 2012 16:31  
Blogger IanCad said...

bluedog & any others who may be interested:

Radio 3 has a reading of Rudyard Kipling's "The Gardener"

A very moving short story inspired by the loss of his son during WW1.
It will be available to listen again shortly.
In BBC speak shortly is a variable.
How come the serial trougher Lord Patton is still around?

12 November 2012 20:55  

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